About wardeckers in High Sec and solution

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
634

Have fun doing that with even only 50 targets

You’ll waste a couple of hours and millions over ghosts lol

And yes, it killed focused wars (the only type of war anyone random could do, rich or poor, solo or with 20000 other players, etc etc)

The only “viable” war nowadays that isn’t hub camping is structure bashing, and it takes a minimum of 3 weeks (until the Citadel changes are in that is)… 3 weeks for a 700m km, and 50m in salvage plus maybe mods

Nothing fun in either of the latter, the former was truly the only exciting type of war one could wage

635

I’m opposed to this information being automatically and real-time available for free.

1 Like
636

Not true.

In reality it killed wars when attackers only wanted easy kills of randoms. Wars for POCO/citadel/resources, for eviction from system are still possible and haven’t made any harder.

Like some people said: both parties should have interest in war.

637

Tell me
Did any of the rl leaders that fell in the past 15 years have interest in the wars that brought their downfall?

People can wage war over anything, foe any reason, that the other party agrees or not.

That’s the price of having a player corp, not safety or whatever lol

638

This is true, due to the fact that if the other side evades it, the war exists only in name.

639

I’ll be more specific. I’d be very happy to join a corp that is based purely on fighting the aggressive wardeccer and no-one else.

1 Like
640

Seems to me that you liked the game on an easy setting. You and your boys wanted everything easy and once you found it was no longer easy you lost interest. You wanted easy targets who were unsure how to fight back.

I think you purposely ignored the corps that could give you a good fight. I’m sorry but the mechanics cant be blamed for everything.

The reason I know what I say could be true is that there was a thread a few weeks back named “WTF happened to Wardecs” where a player and his corp were surprised when they were wardecced and no one from the corp that wardecced them bothered to come and fight LOL. They knew how to defend a wardec and bait. If you had scouted properly you would have found 100s of similar corps.

I think you exaggerate when you say your buddies got burned out looking for fights for years. It was your goals that were a bore you wanted easy targets.

Try fighting people who will give you a good fight.

641

Nah, I liked to work for my kills. But there’s limits.

Easy mode is and have always been blanket decs and hub/pipecamping. Focused wars have been the challenging option.

And you know this, you little troll you :wink:

2 Likes
642

Well you have 97% on Z kill. Are you sure you haven’t gone for easier targets for most of your pvp career?

I disagree, easy mode can also be deccing a corp that you know is very active and would struggle to match your corps skills.

I’m pretty sure if you had decced corps that were a similar size and skill level to you it would have been harder to achieve your 97% z kill record.

1 Like
643

I disagree with this. The blanket dec is there for content. The hunting is what we love but it just is not always avaliable. So at least there is content to fall nack on. Also content fills the players need for shooting and isk.

1 Like
644

This is 100% my sentiment. I will be the first person to whine and complain at the loss of the watchlist. As someone who has historically targeted loot pinatas and people of interest, it was a vital QOL tool that I relied upon. This has changed and things are different now…

Hunting is still possible and still happens. There are people and groups that I’m hunting on a weekly basis. I don’t always get them, but that doesn’t fall on the lack of a watchlist. If hunting is dead or is so difficult that one can’t be bothered with it, then how come just about anytime I log on, there’s someone running locates and doing their homework?

To be honest Raz, and you are someone that I looked up to when I was first getting into this stuff… I think you’re just burnt out in general. I think CCP taking away a tool we relied on as a QOL crutch was the last straw for you. I think this is evident as it wasn’t a day after joining The Culture you fell off of Zkill. This may be because of a genuine disinterest in Nullsec things, but I think it’s important to note. This isn’t a personal attack on you though, so I’ll move on…

Blanket decs are not something that is bad for the game. In fact I would say that it’s exactly what this game needs. Targeted hunting is always going to be a thing, and is an important part of wars… but CCP has shown us that in a players first 30 days they are more likely to sub and stay subbed than a player that experiences no PVP death… So what that tells me is that we need to dec everything and everyone in order to provide them content that’ll keep them subbed… and if they are in an NPC corp we need to be ganking them.

Despite what all of you say, wars serve to provide content and in a lot of times a service. Wars and mercenaries are vehicles for death, destruction, revenge, and a unique story that I believe can only be found in a game like Eve Online. Sure a Badger being killed while moving from Jita 4-4 to the Perimeter gate is just another Badger, but within that loss can create something great. I still have the name of the first person that killed me, but what’s more important than that persons name is the name of the person that was responsible for that.

So one day I hope to have my revenge, and when I’ve had it… it’s going to all go back to that first loss that motivated me…

To learn how to suspect bait
To learn how to hunt and kill wartargets under Lord Raz and Feyd
To learn how to gank and push limits
To learn how to test, theorycraft, and make the games mechanics work for me
To learn how to do all that I need to do to get revenge.

There’s still I have left to do in the game, many goals that I hope to reach before CCP closes the doors. One thing you can count on is that when it’s all over, it’s going to be because of one really simple reason. The loss of my first mining ship.

1 Like
645

Okay, fair enough. How about this idea:

A corp/alliance in a war dec can anchor a structure in HS and it does the following:

  1. It provides watch list like function, but
  2. Only for those corps you war decced.
  3. It can be destroyed, but it has timer but with some randomness so that it can become vulnerable to destruction outside its TZ.

Clearly this is not real time nor is it costless. There could be additional aspects to this (e.g. it is only region wide, or all of HS, etc.).

Or…

Locator agents are modified so that:

  1. So long as one has standings one can use a locator agent in station or not.
  2. The time restriction is reduced to a very short duration, say 1 minute after the last update.
  3. It is empire wide (a war deccer hunting targets an who wants to have locators in all 4 empires will have to have good standings in all 4 empires).

Again, not RT and also not costless.

Some people will never have an interest in a war and that’s fine, IMO. Let them drop to an NPC corp, they can still play, they can create their own private in game channel, they can still use OOG comms, and they can evade the war dec.

There could be changes to the game so more people develop an interest in wars, but that is tricky, IMO. Not that it shouldn’t be attempted, but making changes above seems like a quick/cheap way to get more wars going on that are something other than the hub-humping we have today.

2 Likes
646

A timered structure eh. thats a new and interesting feature…

buy an alt with the standings or pay a runner to share standings to your alt.

IMO improved locator agents are what the people that already declare wars want, and the more you give that particular group the ability to prosecute wars in their exact current format successfully, the worse the fundamental lopsidedness of wars will become, and the more dedicated people will be to logging off to avoid them.

A successful system would motivate 2 carebearish corps to fight each other (which is the first step on the rung, and far more likely to produce content that both sides might enjoy).

I have at least one reasonable idea for that (some kind of agent that hands out multi-day timescale missions to corps, but with other agents that hand out competing missions that effectively interdict other corps missions. The reward scale would be personal based - ie increase in LP, rebate on corp taxes on bounties etc, so that desire to participate is bottom up.

IMO a good implementation would see people preferring to join corps that were successful at this (which is good for reducing the vastly excessive corporations count), and it would motivate people to be logged in to benefit from bonuses, regardless of hangover wars, and it would motivate members to want to fight, because the rewards would be aimed at them.

647

Not really, that is how most structures work. You hit it and RF it in any TZ. But the owner can set the timer for the next vulnerable window plus add on a random aspect to the timer so it might fall outside their preferred TZ. This will push war dec corps/alliances to expand their TZ coverage, and also give “defenders” a shot at taking down the structure that is making them vulnerable.

We could even make it a “double edged sword” too; that is the locator feature works both ways. Once you anchor it you can find your targets…but they can find you too. “Sauce for the goose, Mr. Saavik.”

Still not costless nor real time

Not necessarily. Look at Lord Razpataz, I get the distinct impression he’d like to return to the old way of doing war decs. Deccing a few corps and then hunting them down and engaging them. Used to be you could have a 2-3 man corp dec 3-5 corps and then you can actually have fun. When that happened to my alt and our industrial corp I reached out to the other corps that were decced. Turned out one was a corp of long time players who had done quite a bit in the game, NS, LS, etc. and were in HS taking things easy when they were decced. We created a combined channel, got OOG comms sorted, and formed up and would chase the 2 dudes who decced us back into station and kept them there for awhile. Needless to say they dropped that dec ASAP.

This will never ever happen in a game like EVE. Features are open to all, and if 2 “carebearish” corps can use a feature, then more dedicated PvP players can use it too…and chances are they’ll use it better. Just as “carebears” know all about mining and hauling and blueprints and invention, the PvP guys know about tanking, transversal, and how signatures work in relation to tanking.

I am not saying “No,” to this out of hand, but what is to stop a group of players who understand PvP far better than a simple mission running corp getting involved with this? The PvP corp that also understands missions (and many have mission grinding alts) will likely mop the floor with the mission running corp. And we’ll be back here listening to “they just want to farm kills”, “that isn’t a true war”, etc.

If you don’t like the current meta of mass war deccing…well, that is on CCP. They dumped us in this mess by removing the watchlist and leaving mass war decs as the primary remaining activity. Yeah sure you can go bash POCOs or citadels, but most people are not overly keen on structure grinding.

648

This more or less has much more to do with the lack of interest or will to fight against an aggressor in a war. You do realize that both sides in a war are capable of using these tools? So again, please tell me how this is somehow unfair or “lopsided”. Certain mercenary groups have built up an image of being unbeatable because of some of the tactics and use of mechanics we employ, but this is far from the truth. We’re good at what we do and we do it in an area of the game where very few people care for the PVP.

This currently happens. You see industrialists declaring war for various reasons all the time. War, as a basic tool for combat between groups of players is fine and working as intended.

649

Rubbish idea to link any war to a structure in anyway like this. We already have assets like citadels for this.

650

Im ok with this.
Provided it only reports location, not whether target is currently online.

I dont like the anchored deployable idea, as the framework for tracking already exists with Locator Agents.

651

You completely missed the point. The point is not to simply have another structure to bash, but to have a structure that you can bash and also gives back, to some extent, the watchlist functionality.

652

The current mechanic with locators is too slow and cumbersome.

653

A deployable structure is far more cumbersome from a development perspective, whereas the Locator Agent framework already exists. No need to re-invent the wheel.

What do you mean by too slow?