Did someone say Abyssal will push inflation down? 
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I understand, that insurance will add ISK to the game. But PODs are not insured. Expensive PODs, mind you. And trading fee for 2-4 bilions sell… Even 1 % is already 20 - 40 milions ISK, removed from the game alltogether. What insurance will cover that?
Loreline, you don’t seem to understand the fundamental argument here… if some buys something, like Sacrilege, for Abyssal, the ISK is not ‘destroyed’. It is merely transferred to the person selling that Sacrilege (most likely the manufacturer).
So, no ISK is ‘destroyed’ or ‘removed’ from the game. It simply transferred from one player to another.
That other player, who got the ISK, will spend it on something else… who knows what… a super? Which will push super prices up and so on and so on.
A real ISK sink is one which truly removes the ISK, like insurance. If you pay the insurance ISK, it goes to the NPC… not another player. It is removed from the game completely.
Pods not having insurance doesnt matter. Implants are still bought and sold on the market. So isk spent isnt necisarily sunk. Also depends on whether the implants were from lp store or mission reward or loot drop as to whether or not the implants represent an isk sink or a material sink. LP store isk sink is just as unimportant though as taxes when determining if this is a isk faucet or an isk sink. Insurance payouts will likely out weigh any isk value of implants over all across multiple players. (LP isk sink portion of an implants cost is only a fraction of its total value anyways)
Price rises due to increased demand is entirely separate from inflation of the value of isk. Simple economics. Demand will always outstrip supply so price goes up. But the free generation of isk through mining, ratting (pve activities) will lead to inflation of the market through devaluing isk (reducing the relative value of 1 isk).
The only way to tackle isk value inflation is through isk sinks, such as the abyss content. short term price rises however are entirely different and simply a question of demand outstripping supply.
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did you mean missioning rather than mining? =P… Mining is a material faucet not an isk faucet.
In fact I do. Its just a fallacious argument. This is simple economics. Items are being removed from circulation. your isk used for paying for it is separate from the loss of the items. the loss of the modules removes that potential isk from the game. as it is destroyed. Again, a loss of isk as all modules have a potential isk value in line with market prices! Thats how sinks work…
Yes isk is transferred, so when you lose your ship in the abyss you have lost no only the isk cost up front for purchase (which is kept in circulation) but also lost assets that have an isk value (which are removed from circulation and thereby removed from the marked - ie a sink).
This is REALLY elementary economics.
no i meant both. mining is the free generation of assets, and all assets have an associated isk value - moon goo for example has value. that is the generation of isk.
you really arent getting this. THEY ARE THE SAME!!! any asset in eve has an associated isk value dependent upon demand. Therefore any type of “faucet” as you call it is one that generates isk.
Isk faucet is not a material faucet, and isk sink is not a material sink. They are separate.
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But the free generation of isk through mining, ratting
Mining doesn’t introduce ISK to the game. Ratting (bounties) do. Again, you don’t seem to understand the idea that when someone buys a mineral, the miner gets ISK from another PLAYER. Therefore, ‘existing’ ISK is used and it’s not created. Simple transfer from one player to another. Whereas, with ratting, bounties come from NPCs… it is created.
One single High-grade Crystal Omega implant replaced means trade tax from 1 bilion and 268 milions payed to LP store. Not sure about trade tax with all those trader skills, but even if it is 1 % it is 10 milions. So you have over 275 milions removed from the game with lose of just one implant. How anyone can say it is not an ISK sink?
There is an equivalence between the two. a material sink equates to an isk sink due to the removal of assets from the game (aka market circulation).
perfectly put
in an associated value market like eves they are one and the same. like potential energy.
Max tax is like 10% so you can safely ignore taxes when talking about material sinks. and isk spent in lp store can also be safely ignored. Desides they are sinks that have nothing to do with Abyss, they are the market. those sinks exist even if the ship is lost in pvp or pve.
It all adds up - that is just poor logic.
noone is arguing against that… we are simply seeing a new form of module (material) and isk sink form in the abyss. put simply, if items enter the abyss and dont come out again that is de facto a sink.
If i sold you a rock for a Dollar and you reduced the rock to powder effectively destroying it. Did you destroy a Dollar, or did you destroy a rock?
Isk sinks that existed before the abyss do not matter in whether or not an abyss is an isk sink or not. It would only be an isk sink if you paid isk to enter them. All destruction has a percentage of isk sink attached by the market but it doesn’t make the destruction an isk sink.
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Ok, since you say we can safely ignore any valid facts, the discussion is abyssmal. Implant in my example will not be replaced if there would not be any Abyss. Player could roam foreve in safe environment (as PvE folks used to do) and never ever lose expensive Pod. That means other player will go ratting instead of missioning . Casue no one will buy his LP store ware for the price he is ready to sell them for.
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If you payed 5 cents to get that rock (and payed to the mountain, not to some other person) and sheriff took one cent as a fee, he destroyed 6 cents. Not a dollar, but still some money.
That may seem like a good analogy to you but it is flawed. A rock holds no associated or expected value. All markets hinge on implied value of anything. and the value of 1 isk isn’t a set figure. The eve economy is based in time spent. Time spent ratting, time spent mining, time spent missioning. The value of items comes from two factors, demand, and an expected value given the time it takes to create/gain those items. Which is what leads to inflation of the market and the “value” of isk being undermined by botting creating billions of isk in assets in an automated process. CCP tackle this by creating sinks. Module/Material and isk sinks. (even if you don’t agree with or believe in the equivalency between assets and isk) you must accept that the removal of items with associated value from circulation (by their distruction) leads to a loss from the system.
