Actual Numbers from Marketing (Long Post)

Communications Center General Discussion
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65

The fact that you got one of our Broker-fee-love trolls to react so strongly tells reasonable people that you are dead on target.

We’re rather internet famous, at least on Reddit, for our forum trolls. The one that keeps using short insults for everyone has shown up in screenshots.

Your example of step-by-step on how smaller traders can be blocked is good, and I imagine it can get even more interesting if the Goons go more economic and start occupying and then deserting swaths of the market.

For the next week or so, we’ll probably have some fog of reality in the market conditions.

We’ve got COVID-19 out there forcing folks to stay home, and thus we may see a flood of new players from folks looking for something to do. This may last a week or two.

We’ve still got folks learning the new market. I’m seeing large commitments of liquidity into orders that can be blocked just as you described. Folks are going to learn expensive lessons from that.

We’ve got the skills for kills event for the next month, but I can’t predict how that might affect market conditions. Shooting in high-sec still gets you CONCORDed if you aren’t at war, so the additional motivation for PvP there is still balanced by the cost of the loss of your own ship. And you still can’t declare war against those that don’t have deployed structures, so maybe the effect of the (s)kills event will be close to nil.

In addition to the inflow of new people, we’re looking at an outflow of older players, at least in terms of participation. That brings up questions as to how fast the new folks will learn the lessons of this new market and what the ratio will be of whether they’ll get discouraged or stay around to influence the market with their buying and selling habits.

But, again, as to the forums, we’ve got some regular negative posters here, so one expects to have their thread contribution acquire some verbal fertilizer quickly. Don’t let that be a discouragement to posting highly informative work such as your post.

We do have a recent addition to the ‘pull down and discourage everyone on a subject’ posting list, one that has embraced the mantra of ‘stop all discussion of the Broker Fee’ in such a complete way that I have to wonder if their employment is on the line or something. Like, if the broker fee gets removed, will this particular forum poster lose their job or suffer some similar consequence?

My stance is that if the fee does not get removed, many players will depart and the result of that will be that many CCP employees will lose their jobs as the company loses support from PA and downsizes or closes. So I’ll continue to stand for a reversal of March 10th’s major fee.

68

Not ‘that’ big. The EVE diet has done you wonders!

Also, I suppose this counts as ‘talking about other people’, but in a very vague sense?

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71

There is another problem I expect to arise: All sales will concentrate around jita because there is too much risk to seed any other market. When I put stuff on sale on remote systems, I could just relist the stuff within 90 days and continue to hope for a buyer. I actually have a lot of stuff scattered around eve waiting to be sold. So now, when there orders expire, I will not relist them as it will cost a lot of isk with little chance for a sale. If others feel the same, many systems markets will be empty after 90 days

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72

You indeed need to go smaller stuff if you want to go to a small hub. What’s new ?

Also, every relist is 1/4th of the placement of the order. that means, assuming 25days between relist, if you place half orders compared to before, after 125d it will cost as much as previously. That means that in 125d your orders did not go.

But I agree, reducing the relist fee based on the time since last relist would be good. eg relist_fee_mult = (30d-(relist_elapsed))/30d , so if you relist twice fast it’s expensive, but after 30d it’s zero relist fee.

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73

Sounds like you’re bad at market PvP, tried to sell your item in an area where demand is not sufficient to cover the entire supply, and probably made a mistake by building Hawks in the first place when there is such low demand.

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74

“Sounds like you’re bad at market PvP”. Normal response for this forum but having 10 years of experience and tending to move billions at a time that’s pretty funny when people say it. Hawks have plenty of demand, I’ve already sold 5 more. This wasn’t a complaint, it’s an observation, regardless of if I sold if for what I did or 5 million less another order would still be placed as long as there is some margin. This was just an example to show issue with the list fee being 30% of the total profit and the idea that dropping more orders with 1 doesn’t always work. It was a direct reference to people saying low quantity with many order slots.

96

How much is it going to cost me to cancel all my orders and just and just forget that the market exists?

97

It doesn’t cost anything to cancel your orders.

98

Nothing. broker fee are paid when the order is placed/relisted.

101

Way less than bitching here.

108

Then what’s the problem? You successfully sold the items you produced, so clearly the new system isn’t preventing you from participating in the market.

110

Removed a large number of off topic posts. Keep it on topic and civil. Only warning.

112

No, it does not.

113

How is that different from before - the willingness of people to undercut was never absent? The majority of products are so close to production cost that it’s often hard to find a profit - let alone a high-profit.

The difference is now that there is less mobility in the amount you can decrease price before you’ve consumed the profits in the transaction. It doesn’t make it any more competitive at all, if you go in lower, the next seller can still go in lower. The limit is how many times you can reprice before you lose money.

114

30 days is a lot to tie up capital. You can’t re-price within 5 minutes at present. The 0.01 ISK was frustrating, that’s now nearest 1K ISK. If there’s velocity decreasing of pricing, to the 1K ISK that’s already better for the buyer. All the current high listing fees is lock a seller into a price with little room to move, it doesn’t stop the next seller coming in 1K ISK lower. I really don’t see any benefit in this for the buyer or the seller. Eve was always a price war; whether it has another effect on reducing the amount ISK being traded - creates a presudo-sink because people are saving their retained wealth and not investing into production as much, yet to see.

115

No, the limit is your greed. Put your ■■■■ up for decent prices and it will sell.

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116

You do understand there is a minimum on value, or are you one of those “I mined it so its free” …people.

Or shall we get into opportunity cost, the basis of essentially all economics?

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117

Of course I do.