you can still move away from that market if it’s not worth.
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Then you aren’t looking very hard. The benefit is that smart traders who can set the price accurately the first time, identify markets where demand is sufficient to guarantee sales, etc, get to win and make more ISK than the competition. This is much better than the old system, where the winner is determined almost entirely by how many hours per day you’re willing to sit at your PC making 0.01 ISK adjustments.
Eve was always a price war;
No it wasn’t, because no significant price changes were being made. Adjusting the price of a 100 million ISK item by 0.01 ISK is not a price drop, it’s just clicking the “make my item the first to sell” button every 5 minutes and getting punished if you have a life outside of EVE and can’t click the button 23/7. Now if you want to have a price war you actually have to make a significant change in your prices.
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Actually, I always have I know my cost of production / taxes etc and I never 0.01 ISK’D or if trading, then my spread. Even when you don’t 0.01 ISK - there’s usually a bidding war on seller price. When you take faction items that have more of a premium, generally repricing happens at least once a day - they tie up a lot of capital. Or high velocity goods like DCUs, keeping in mind I run hundreds of these out a day, and set them at a reasonable price - people can still come underneath and will. So you need to reprice – but now you have another threshold to consider. The reality is, I manufacture and produce a lot of goods on my industrial - do you?
Exactly - so many things, especially ships are so close to cost when they’re listed - there are few niches among them where they are profitable, or you have to grab windows like when the Koreans came and DCU II demand went up massively, taking them up near 700K when their usual is about 430-460K.
When a profitable product is found, and they’re rarely obscene profits - also keep in mind that production queues can be time consuming on more advanced products, the training time on T3 ships is not insignificant. The time invested into manufacturing is significant. Now when a profitable product appears, it’s never long before that class of goods is dog-piled and pushed down near to production costs.
I guess you don’t trade - it is a price war, because in order to sell you need to have the lowest price, and the fact that people were using 0.01 ISK decreases every 5 minutes in order to make that sale demonstrates how aggressive that war is. I have no issue with the 1K ISK minimum shift - I’d usually bring my prices down in more significant increments depending the margin, and knowing my price floor – which is in a sense a counter to the 0.01 ISK as an aggressive sales tactic - ergo price war. If you manufactured and traded heavily, you’d know how fast things can get to the production cost or even below to force people out.
This will reduce the velocity of ISK within the game as its very likely to tie up ISK due to orders potentially sitting for weeks/months.
As a producer and seller this change has directly affected me. I really like this aspect of the game and its where I spend a good proportion of my time. Checking prices, checking margins, checking history and graphs and volumes sold ect. I dont use third party sites like ISK per hour as the enjoyment for me is finding that profitable item.
This coupled with the selling aspect of being online actively managing orders checking profits and amending prices accordingly. I love Tycoon games and this one is without a doubt the best there is. I appreciate this isnt everyone cup of tea.
Now with the changes made there is no point in having my alt logged on because once my price has been set thats it. I have to sit and wait to hope that my pricing was competitive and pray that the minerals I mine are free crowd dont show up after me.
Its a race to see who will work for the least amount of profit. There is little incentive to now find a item which is selling well due to higher demand because if you list your items at that price you are stuck and prices will drop and you will be stuck.
From this point on I wont be continuing to manufacture as to me its not worth the time, effort and tying up the ISK and no alt in Jita.
Less people online, less goods being made.
Will this be bad for the game? Im not smart enough or arrogant enough to say. For me however the game has lost some of its richness and diversity and that surely cant be a good thing.
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Yes, it’s changed some active activities (physically playing the trading game) to non-activities (physically not playing the game).
Which is to say: setting your prices, and going away and doing something else, because you are financially penalized for actively playing: clicking on stuff in-game.
Also: has anyone got some suggestion about what an ‘intelligent’ price might be?
As far as i can see it’s still the lowest price that gets sold, right?
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The ‘intelligent’ price is an imaginary number envisioned by forum trolls who don’t manufacture and trade, and in fact don’t do much of anything besides jump on every conversation they can to say “You’re an idiot”.
You’ll note the lack of anything like numbers, facts, tips or details in their posts. Vague phrases like “if you didn’t set your trades up properly that’s your problem”, “you need to be more competitive” and “adapt or die” are the best they can manage.
You’d be better off focusing trading discussions on the people who demonstrate they know what they’re talking about, and ignoring the trolls who only pretend they do because they desperately need some place to spew bile for attention.
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Agreed.
It seems thst quite a few of them can’t seem to think beyond the end of their own noses, … for instance I’ve heard it said several times:
“I’ll just drive the price down more easily, and run off the competition: more profits for me”
I guess they don’t realise that (unless are the person that actually has the most money)
- people don’t want to be driven off, and
- some of them will follow you down to Hell with their prices
- If you are willing to do this, then it’s 100% certain others are willing to do it to you.
which means 2 or 3 people can just drive the market price down to where neither they, or their competition, not anyone is making any money at all.
So their share of “more profits for me” is now the same % of the profits they had before, except the total profit is now Zero.
A bit like several traders being in a small boat, and one of them goes: “I’m going to put the other guy out of business”, and then sets fire to the boat, to do it.
Not quite correct. I know a number of people who were happy to watch others drive markets down, and sometimes even add a little momentum to the process themselves with small orders priced lower to trigger more .01 isking. Then when the numbers get to the point where they know they can (eventually) make a good profit, they either buy out all they can afford and ship them somewhere else to sell, or sit on them for a while til the market rationalizes and start re-selling them at the non-crazy prices a few weeks or months later.
you have a point 
… although it might be a bit difficult even to do that now
Your bile for attention is just more elaborate than others’
I have a toon with +250 market slots, if I decide to kill a position on a market, there isn’t a lot you can do about it.
Sorry, i should have been a bit clearer, I meant it might be a bit difficult after buying everyone out to then take the stuff and sell it elsewhere 
I don’t doubt you could crash the market!
Except the point is that all of the prices were effectively equal. A 0.01 ISK price difference on a 100 million ISK item is completely irrelevant from the point of view of “how rich am I when I sell this”. For 0.01 ISK price adjustments to have even a 1% difference in price you would literally have to make 0.01 ISK drops every 5 minutes (as fast as possible) 24 hours a day with no interruptions for 950 years.
Now if you want to have a price war you actually have to have a price war and lower your prices to a meaningful degree, not just spam irrelevant “drops” to keep yourself at the top of the list.
You just contradicted yourself here. If you find an item that is selling well because of high demand then you can’t gets stuck. Who cares if someone undercuts you, demand is sufficient to sell every single instance of that item that hits the market in that system/region.
What you can’t do now is just park yourself in Jita and mindlessly 0.01 ISK war all day. This should make you happy, now by doing research and understanding the markets you can identify genuine opportunities to generate wealth and not just turn yourself into a bot.
Then what’s the problem? You successfully sold the items you produced, so clearly the new system isn’t preventing you from participating in the market.
The post is mainly to point out some issues with the new system, I can control markets I work with because I have a large amount of isk I can absorb and the new fee systems can be a problem by extension for those trying to compete. The numbers don’t allow for any fluidity in the market and that can severely impact a lot of things in a negative way.
I could have been quite about the market and not say anything in order to keep profiting but I don’t think it’s fair to those who don’t have the resources I have. It’s imbalanced in an unfair way. This is the first of a major tweak to the market, I doubt CCP thinks they nailed it the first time and I was giving my feed back based on all my experience with production and the markets.
EVE is not supposed to be fair. It’s a simulation of a dystopian hyper-capitalist world where Darwin rules, it is deliberate intent that many players will fail and lose because someone was stronger than them.
EVE is not supposed to be fair. It’s a simulation of a dystopian hyper-capitalist world where Darwin rules, it is deliberate intent that many players will fail and lose because someone was stronger than them.
There is a difference between fair and unbalanced because of game mechanics which are controlled otherwise. This isn’t evolution in the real world, it is a manufactured system that is being modified as CCP changes things.
I had no issue with the 1K drops. It removes the F1 equivalent of market-pvp. It’s the relist that’s the issue.
I didnt contradicted myself. As I said if an item is in higher demand than normal them the price spikes due to limited supply. You come in and fill that gap. Other people will have noticed this spike and will also be producing. You list your items at the current price and 30 other people come in after you and tank the price back down to the general average for that item. Your items are now priced above the average and hence you are now trapped with the order which is unlikely now to sell without amending your order and taking a large hit.