When placing an order, think if the market will get new orders at a different price.
And if the answer is āyes, i think the market will get new orders at a different priceā - what should i do?
Scoots Chobo you are worthless.
The 2 orders would have still under cut his price even at a better price point.
You buy plex for isk so youāre a loser with and discredited.
Oh ew, talking trash is back.
Youāve already shown that your opinion is worthless. Lucky for you that your break was long enough for you to fall out of my block list. Let me help you get back on there.
But would they have?
Not everyone prices at minimum price on the market.
I was just selling some PI goods. I didnāt set to the market minimum but looked at volume traded, amount on the market, and priced such I expected the market movements to get them sold.
Less than 2 minutes later I already had sold one items entire stack (out of four) when there were 5 orders cheaper than me on the market I was selling on.
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This brings up a point. Pi markets are producer driven and not trader driven.
I know this from first hand experience.
As I grow into trading Iām seeing this distinction more clearly now.
My bet is that the producer driven Pi market allows for a producer-set price.
Traders set the price in other commodities. Especially loot items where theres a huge player base supplying a small-lot quantities.
Except it also makes the point that your above claim of āpeople would have undercut anywayā is false.
Especially since it was using Hawks as an example which is clearly a producer driven market.
Might it move more markets to be producer driven, not trader driven. Entirely possible.
Is it a bad thing if items donāt go through 5 traders hands before actually getting to a user. I donāt think so, I think itās great if items start going direct from seller to user, or through a smaller number of traders.
People do undercut. But the dynamics are indeed more nuanced.
Basically theres such a high demand for pi.
But so much pi is made by large scale producers that Traders cant buy in.
I looked at a pi from traderās perspective today and for me itās a loss. For max skills/standings itās barely profitable.
Because itās a producer controlled market.
Other markets are not. And therefore traders set the price.
Who competes are still competing for a floor.
The floor does go up and down. But on a hull. This is going to be such a slow market that it will be undercut by a producer.
Because unless you are NOT profitable. A small time producer will undercut you just to get a return.
Except clearly not everyone will undercut just for the sake of undercutting. Not now you canāt undercut by 0.01isk.
You are stuck in the old way of thinking still and not actually adapting here.
Itās going to change the dynamic once people learn, and itās hopefully going to reduce the influence traders have on market prices on many items and hand the control more back to the producers.
What Iām trying to say is in some markets, particularly slower, producer driven markets. Small time producers will undercut.
Like with Pi. When I was poor, I was selling to buyer. When I scaled bigger and got richer, I started placing sell orders.
The reason was simple. I made more money from fast turn over when smaller production numbers.
At some point my production became so large that I no longer cared about velocity of turnover but about consistency of input-supply.
Eventually I was buying the entire p3 stockpiles in Jita and consuming them on a daily basis for some P4 products.
I was producing upwards of 800 to 1600 units of P4 in 30 hours.
I mastered Pi. I got bored of it.
Now Iām trying the market.
And my point is that small scale producers absolutely need turn over.
In low velocity markets they will undercut you every time.
The hull example is a good example of where market velocity is so slow that a small time producer will undercut by one-tick no matter what.
They will enter at the profitable price to them. And try and move it as fast as possible.
Because they are small producers
The question isā¦if you have time and spaceā¦can you wait long enough for the floor to rise in a slow velocity market? The answer can be yes.
But is it worth your industry time?
Really. You know the mind of every single producer as to exactly what they will do?
I think not.
You are stuck in the old undercut by 0.01 isk thinking. People will change their behaviour to some extent, not everyone will undercut and having a good price point for your product will matter.
Sure some people might still undercut but you can not say people will always undercut.
This is a practical approach to market theory.
Letās remove the idea of 0.01 and current method altogether.
Letās call it one-tick.
The size of price change is irrelevant.
I as a trader do not care about the price.
I care about velocity and margin and volume. If velocity x margin x volume = profit. Then I try to increase those variables.
If I have to one-tick to do it. I do it.
Now as a producer itās the same but the conditional to my scale of production.
If I produce a little, I want to maximize velocity. This means more ticks. This means I undercut more frequently.
If I produce a lot I want to maximize volume. I agree with you in a large strong market like Pi. I usually set a price above the floor and waited.
Usually because the bottom few thousand units were not enough to affect the real floor.
But in the Hull example the bottom 2 units represents a weekās worth of trading.
Where as the bottom 10,000 units of robotics might represent 15 minutes worth.
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A good way to think of the one-tickā¦
Selling to buyer is like infinite undercutting. You went so low you sold instantly.
As a small scale producer this is almost always the best bet for quick growth.
Undercutting another seller by 0.01 Isk or a much larger number is Market Trading PvP. I understand that. Now we canāt undercut by minuscule margins, Iām ok with that.
What I am vehemently against is Market Traders being penalized for using the only advantage available to them.
With an identical product, the only distinction between sellers is the price point. I am being penalized by obscene broker fees whenever I change my product price, that is, whenever I attempt to use the only advantage any seller has in this version of PvP.
Do players in ship v ship PvP get penalized for any advantage they may come up with? Of course not. Why, then, is market trading PvP treated differently? Because CCP is too lazy to combat bots by anything other than ruining Trading PvP. The Isk being bled out of the game must be in the hundreds of billions due to these new brokerage fees. Is CCP doing the same to other forms of PvP? Most certainly not.
If a car dealer sells an identical vehicle for a lower price, buyers will go to him. But the car dealer is not penalized when he lowers his price to be competitive. There is not a government on the planet that does this to its economy, from toothpaste to Rolls Royces, the whole idea is absolutely absurd. But not CCP. They control the markets more than any Big Brother totalitarian government ever could.
We traders are paying through the nose for the bot war, and our Isk is disappearing every time we attempt to engage our fellow traders in competitive pricing.
New traders are especially screwed, as they are desperate for Isk to pay for skills and the newer ships they skill into. They have to sell their loot, ore, and manufactured goods quickly to move forward. And now they are penalized for merely wanting to get ahead in the game. Every time they change a price they are gouged with additional broker fees. Did anyone in those CCP Ivory Towers consider that??
I am boycotting trading, and any goods I manufacture can gather dust in my hangars for as long as this situation exists. Iāve got enough Isk to last me for years in my current playstyle. You new players? Welcome to EVE, suckersā¦
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āWahh, I canāt just mindlessly update my orders by 0.01 isk anymore!! Waahh, I have to use my brain and price things competitively!!ā - @Ghengis_Tia, 2020.
Read the first paragraph of my post again, plankton. āNow we canāt undercut by minuscule margins, Iām ok with that.ā
The post dealt with brokers fees and nothing else. A brain is terrible thing to waste, Iām sorry for your lossā¦
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Yeah, you start that way, and then immediately start crying about getting undercut with your hilariously bad car deal example.
Your comprehension is on display here. Let me attempt to illuminate what is seemingly so difficult for you to understand.
I referenced the example stating that the car dealer is not penalized for lowering his prices, whereas in EVE all traders are. Once again, it has nothing to do with undercutting prices by small margins.
Teal really isnāt your color, by the wayā¦
Keep crying, dear. My popcorn needs more salt.