While PvP is not a foreign concept to me, I have no idea where to begin with it in EVE. I’ve listened to numerous fleet ops on Mumble, and often can’t make sense of the terminology they use.
Just this morning I learned “logi” refers to ships that are essentially “healers” of a sort. When I mentioned to my alliance mate I tend to prefer straightforward combat–I played a paladin in WoW and took a “rush in and stab it 'til it’s dead” approach–he suggested something I believe is called a “Ferox.”
One reason I haven’t been interested in EVE PvP is because they say not to fly what you can’t afford to lose, and intentionally flying toward something intent on destroying me seems counterproductive to the goal of keeping my ship and my implants.
Unfortunately, the game does inevitably involve PvP at some point, so I suppose I’ll have to learn. The questions are, where do I begin and what questions do I need to answer for myself before I’ll know what direction I want to go?
You learn PvP best with trial and error, that’s why people recommend to start cheap, no implants (use a citadel to swap learning and PvP clone), frigates or destroyers. Second, best to learn in a bigger group, because individual mistakes don‘t matter that much than solo or in a small fleet. I learned a lot with public fleets of Bombers Bar and Spectre Fleet.
… and it takes time to learn the mechanics of EvE PvP, especially those which are not obvious. A couple months to get good in a role or play style plus the time to skill the ships and equipment.
I learned most of my PvP knowledge by flying with my corp members. First fleets, some chaotic home defence pvp, lately a lot of small gang covert ops pvp and some solo pvp.
I wouldn’t really know where to start learning solo pvp (although I’ve heard faction warfare is good for that) but my recommendation would be to join a corporation that does pvp.
Jumping right into a nul-sec blob corp isn’t the best way to learn pvp, all they want it f1 monkeys. Join a small corp, learn the terms, grab an atron and go pvp in losec (don’t aggress on a gate or station, the NPC guns will kill you)
[quote=“Von_DeMoreno, post:1, topic:321735”] intentionally flying toward something intent on destroying me seems counterproductive to the goal of keeping my ship and my implants.
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Yep, it is. But the advice is to learn to accept loss. Try to think that any PvP ship(and your pod) is already gone when you undock, by the time you rush toward your target there is nothing else to lose.
As for where to learn, you mentioned your alliance. Ask if there is something going on and how you can help.
Now, lets face the fact, you are inexperienced and possibly unskilled too. You are likely to be relegated to the less glamorous and more dangerous tasks and will probably die a lot until getting your footing. If you can’t accept that, you are not ready for pvp, there is no shame in that, just find something else to do, in EVE or elsewhere.
FYI Our monkeys need to be able to press a sizable assortment of keys, not just F1.
Seriously, fleet is a different beast than solo/gang pvp, and some of the skills that are important in small/solo are not that relevant in fleet (and the other way around). But you just can’t live and operate in nullsec space without some knowledge of how small gangs and solo hunters operate.
Educating our pilots is a necessity, and recruits can get this education with the benefits like Ship Replacement Programs, free equipment and access to some very experienced and capable FC.
If one can learn to PvP alone, having to figure out everything in his own, more power for him. But there are easier ways.
Frigates are cheap, and if you want to charge in and stab it while tanking, you want an Incursus with blasters.
A lot of PvP is knowing what you’re going to be facing and how to fight against it, and when to run. For example, if I was fighting against your blaster Incursus in my Rifter, I’d try to keep you at the edge of Warp Scrambler range and use my long range ammo, knowing that I’d have much better damage at 8000 meters than you would.
Also, you will die so much learning, don’t even sweat it. You can even ask the people who shot you what you could have done better. o7
I appreciate all the good feedback. Keep it coming!
I presume–in ignorance–that ratting gangs share some of the same mechanics as PvP. My corp does both ratting and PvP, and I’ve run salvage in a Cormorant for ratting ops.
My issue with learning PvP is I don’t have the ISK to replace my implants, but I gather from what you’ve all said that I could use a jump clone to keep my implants safe. I simply don’t have the ISK for a lot of PvP ships, either.
It seems like PvP is more or less a moneysink, so perhaps it’s not something I can get involved with right now. I don’t know how PvPers manage to make enough ISK to keep doing PvP.
Just coming back after four-ish months away, and both then and now I remain a beginner, but I can tell you about the experience of dipping into the pool so to speak.
Regarding the implants, I would simply train Infomorph Psychology or w/e and have a clean clone on standby for times you know you will be actively seeking PvP.
I would recommend doing Abyssal content to pay for your first starter ships. About an hour’s worth of T0s in a Kestrel had me in cash for another five or six rookie-fitted Kestrels (can check the forums or in-game tools for basic fits for whatever you can fly). You’re doomed to lose them but that’s part of the plan. Anomalies can also be good under the right circumstances, but the ships to do those are more expensive.
I did solo belt ratting in lowsec (FW and otherwise), which pays a bit in terms of bounties and I stuck my ass out hoping people would bite, but I hardly ever got fights, so you may want to take a different approach. Diving into a plex seemed like a good way to learn nothing, but I can’t say that from experience. At the very least, repeated roams in these constellations lets you learn who fights there, what their tactics are, and thus who to avoid (for instance, members of a blobber alliance or something). Once you recognize the names, watching their killboards will also help.
I hope to get more time in game so, if you happen to come to Black Rise, feel free to shoot at me.
Both ratting and pvp make use of EVEs combat mechanics, so ratting is a nice way to get accustomed to tracking, manual piloting, avoiding damage, different weapon systems, application and keeping track of your resources (hp, cap, cooldowns). It’s not enough to help you get good in PvP but some of the ratting knowledge will carry over.
The trick is to fly PvP ships you can afford to replace as often as you die in it. I don’t often make ISK (and neither do I have a lot of it), so I make just enough to replace the occasional loss.
If you have some form of ISK making that you enjoy (mining, ratting, explo, abyssals, trading, industry, pi… ) then you can probably afford to lose many t1 frigates. Try to use those in pvp!
This is why corporations in null are nice, you usually have people to fly with and in a standing fleet (not the ‘f1 fleet’ people think of when they hear null, but much less organised and more chaotic) you can help others get kills by flying cheap t1 tackle or ewar frigates.
Fly easy brawl ships. Set your default orbit and keep at range to your optimal range and haul in guns blazing.
You go from there
Get pyfa. Personally I learned SO MUCH about eve, ships, mechanics just theorycrafting in Pyfa, googling things and trying to come up with cool ship fittings and ideas. From 10mn Tormentor to Triple Tanked Gnosis.
Ignore the Meta. Come up with your own stuff.
What previous posters said. Trial and Error.
Also I don’t mind company when roaming. Not that I am some sort of “super elite 5bil pod, 10b ship dank frags 420 no scope solo youtube twitch stream subscribe to my patreon” - PVPer, but maybe I can show you a thing or two
Doing your first experiences in pvp in a group is probably best so you can rely on the experience of others around you, and ask them questions on things you don’t understand.
The next thing to understand is your budget, how much you can roughly afford to lose. A ferox is quite affordable (after insurance) by the standards of most PVP ships, but if you’re still very new it might be a big investment still. Electronic warfare frigates are probably the cheapest way to participate in most fleet pvp contexts.
I’d say the most important thing is to have a goal, or understand your motivation for PVPing. Some common ones I see:
Defending your space and protecting your group
Ruining other peoples’ day
Blowing up the biggest and most valuable ships you can
Helping out / saving your friends
Finding PVP opportunities for others
Finding adrenaline-inducing tests of pilot skill
Satisfying teamwork with friends
High-risk, high-reward strategies, ships, etc.
Unique playstyles with interesting game mechanics
When you understand what kind of things motivate you, you can start to investigate how to make them a reality. EVE is a sandbox game that relies on setting your own goals and measures of success, far more than most other games that provide clearly defined arenas of combat.
where can one find a bunch of players who are at a sort of early-mid experience level to pvp with? is that even in the game or do you have to setup some kind of corp and make your own mini-arena? (ala rvb. doesn’t work…)
Lowsec around Tama (general FW space) is the best place to learn solo PvP in hard mode. But if you are new to PvP I recommend to join Spectre and Bombers Bar public fleets for a few weeks first.
If you are German speaking you are welcome every Monday and Thursday 1800 EvE for Black Rise public fleet roams to Kinakka NPC station.
If you interested in learning solo pvp and general pvp mechanics i can help you . Dm me Bluelysian@1484 . I dont stand up for any faction or corporation…
To echo others’ comments here: lowsec FW (faction warfare) is a great place to start if there’s not much doing in corp/alliance that suits your skill /confidence level. For your very first steps, you cannot go wrong with Spectre Fleet either - super-helpful and friendly FCs, and a huge range of experience from grizzled bittervets to squeaky-shiny newbies. Cheap and easy ships to fly, all from Jita too so you’ve got no travel issues.
More generally, keep your expansive head at home and fight empty-headed until you have more skill/confidence/earning potential. Once you’ve got some basics down, another good bet is to pay a hauler to bring out a number of frigates to an active FW area (there should cost only a few million each) and just go lose them all. Speak to those that kill you, see if you can get some tips. Also, lots of good resources out there - particularly things like Brave Dojo and other groups’ stuff that can show you things like manual piloting, matching transversal etc.
Then, it’s just a looooooong grind of learning ship names, matching them to likely weapons systems, engagement envelopes, learning a range of ships to pilot yourself, how those ships can be used against other types of ships, and so on. This is the part that can take an awfully long time to fully master, but don’t let that worry you! If you’re at that point, you’re already doing better than the vast majority of the game’s playerbase.
You should also take up blue’s offer, she has a great reputation as a PvP mentor. Not had the pleasure to fly with or against her so I can’t comment personally, but from what I hear, blue da bomb.
Oh, and also: if you’re really getting into it, don’t be afraid to apply to groups that you have seen (on YouTube/Twitch/Alliance Tournament or whatever) and respect as worthy fighters / adversaries etc. I’ve flown with a few groups now that have very high reputations as a relatively unskilled pvper - despite their fearsome reputations, most groups will welcome you in with the right attitude (and a relatively decent number of skills). Doesn’t hurt to ask!
Fw is one of the best places, even if you don’t enlist and just roam the space. It’s full of people and it’s pretty easy to only take fights that you want.
On top of that as with most of my advice in eve. Join a Corp that will help you reach your goal and fits your taste.
Edit
Oh yeah and kestrels get lots and lots of kestrels
