(Again) Does the Kronos and Paladin need a LITTLE bit of love?

As you guys know, or I am sure you are aware, a very large question in EvE online has always been, should some ships and some ship classes be balanced around the idea of “Solo pvp”

What is solo pvp, how is it balanced, is there really a place in eve online for Solo Pvp ships or solo pvp specific balancing?

Well anyways, regardless of all those topics and issues I just wanted to get your thoughts on the Paladin and Kronos for pvp.

I “think” that and many do feel that they are both Significantly weaker than either the Varguar and Golem.

Especially after using ALL of them and experimenting with various and VERY shiney fits for each of the 4, see KB for 5+ bil Kronos. ( LULZS! )

Why have I come to this conclusion? Varguar and golem or both are Way more versatile in fittings and have better damage application and selection. (and potentially much much better cap warefare resistant tanks)

I propose very small changes, or rather what I ““think”” are the changes.

Of which I can narrow it down to two or three general Ideas for each:

  1. Kronos
    A. Increase drone bandwidth to 100 and drone bay to 200 or 300 M3 (It’s a Gallente ship dot dot dot)
    B. Either give 15-25% more capacitor and 15 to 25% faster cap regen. (Because only 4 mids doesn’t leave much room for cap defense)
    c. Remove 1 high slot for a 5th midslot. (for an extra cap booster, or selection of cap batteries)

  2. Paladin
    A. Increase Drone Bandwidth to 75 and drone bay to 100 or 125. (its a freaking tech 2 battleship!!)
    B. Similar to Kronos, increase starting capacitor level by 10-25% and or increase capo regen by 10-25% (more cap defense for anti neut issues)
    C. same thing with kronos, Lose 1 high slot for a 5th midslot, (more cap batteries or cap booster etc)

Final thought on this, is scrap all of those ideas and just give Paladin and Kronos +20% more default CPU and Powergrid so that they never have a problem fitting 3 x type noses with the largest guns and biggest tank.

And in addition to these ideas, can we get a Bastion II already!!!
Powergrid: 30
Cpu: 150
Capacitor use per cycle: 5 or 10
+10% to 15% increases on all the stats that the Tech 1 bastion does.

as far as basic math goes it seems balanced to have a Bastion II for a lot more fitting (Relative to the tech 1 bastion) and only 10% better attributes. -meh shrugs-

no Need for more cap on both ships cause they have more then enough room for cap. you Need to remember that they are marauders and with Bastion mode they tank easy 1 carrier and with the Right fit 2 carrier or an haw dread. so why they Need to be cap immune ?

the next Question xD why they Need more drone bandwidth ? they are turret ships and not drone boats so …

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Paladin is fine where it’s at, but i agree that the kronos needs a buff. I think dropping the high for a mid is a great idea and would probably make it actually useful. Also increase cargo hold on all marauders, 3200’s take up a lot of space.

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Maruaders cost more than a carrier so they should be able to easily tank them.

the change wouldn’t make them cap immunes,

more drones cause they are tech 2 battleships, expensive as all heck (more expensive than a carrier) and take a very very long time to all L5 skill them…

Ah yes I really really like the more cargo hold room.

oh hey my Marshal cost more then a marauder and a carrier and lot of other caps so …. it Need to tank everything and oneshot them cause ist more expensive …

lol what ? what a stupid reason …

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No no not at all.

I agree Marshall should be able to. Dat cost. It’s not a stupid reason, it’s just that you don’t agree with it. Which is fine.

But cost is actually a balancing factor so long as Better things ALWAYS cost ALOT alot more.

Edit: and cost is mostly a factor of rarity, so the best items and best ships are super super rare. If it could be bought from CCP with real life currency, also make that Extremely expensive, like ok you can buy a Marshall for 90 USD. (Or more).

Just because someone can afford to buy it doesn’t mean they know how to use it.

but a rare ship dont say it Need to be overpowered …. and the Price should never be a reason to balance any ship caus ethe Price can be switch very fast so it still be a very stupid idea…

and btw … my other Blops are also more expensive then my pvp carrier … but why it will blow up a few seconds after the carrier would agress it ? oO why it cant tank it forever cause ist more expensive ?

Cost is not balance. Expecting something to win because it’s expensive is stupid.

Cost is and should be a direct relation to utility. For example, a marauder has bastion… it’s a massive improvement to survivability. Capitals have jump drives (and are a bit too strong atm). Blackops have jump drives and covert bridges.

A blops costs almost as much as a marauder; yet a blops against a T1 battleship will stand a good chance of losing. Even that marshal, it’ll probably die to a ship that after insurance probably only cost about 150m isk fitted.

Cost is not a factor of rarity, because apart from LE hulls such as AT rewards, there’s an infinite number available. A marauder, for example, is rare only because it sucks and because there’s a very long train for such a sucky ship. Not because it’s powerful, not because it should be as powerful as its price would indicate.

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Muraders first, do not suck in pvp, in high sec they are king.
You pop accuracy drugs and you can thread a needle with your hybrid charges, esspecially the kronos.

The power level is not based on cost, as there are outside influences, such as moon mining going from passive to specific citidels, and shuffling of where good moons were.
The price of muraders went from 1.5 bill to 2.5bil before fitting.

Where as capitals are mostly made of minerals the chamges to the reqs ability to mine allowed them to rip through asteroid fields dropping the price of carriers from 15-20 bil to 3 bill.

Cost is not a balancing factor.

Cost does not equate to winning. You still have to know how to use it and be aware of what’s going on to adapt.

Cost is just an item attribute thing but says nothing about whether you auto win or auto lose.

Bad argument. Cost does not equal tank.
Freighters cost more than bleah bleah so they should be able to tank them.

AT ships cost more than titans so they should be able to kill/tank them.

Saying something is a bad argument does not in it of itself support that reasoning, what is your logic and rationality.

As we already established just because something is more expensive does not automatically mean it will win, it should just and ONLY mean that it’s attributes and item stats are better. Why, because this is what META level means, if it doesn’t remove that list/entry from the attribute list and let people decide for themselves.

Sorry, unless ccp publicly said Meta measurement is just a measure of rarity then it would make a lot more sense. (well somewhat more sense, shrugs)

And what do you guys really care if some nerd with way too much money can just Straight up buy officer mods or faction titans for A LOT A LOT of real life money, why does it bother you? As you already know or should know it doesn’t mean they know what they are doing or how to use it. -shrugs-

Anyway’s that’s all way off topic.

Get back to, why doesn’t the Paladin and Kronos need slight changes? Why is the Varguar and Golem slot layout make them much better at versatility, damage application and potential tank resistance?

I can see the argument for max DPS on kronos being a supporting factor, and ammo change ability on Paladin being another. anything else?

Guess I’ll be the heretic in the room; I’ve always considered the Marauder class ships to be designed around the role in PvE, not PvP. A Marauder is defined as one who attacks/raids for the purpose of obtaining loot/booty. While you obviously get loot from your PvP kills, the Marauders bonuses to tractor beam and the immobility of Bastion tends to lend itself best for a quick kill and leasurly loot/salvage of the prey. In PvP, movement and range is critical; the ships most commonly used are mostly designed around those factors. Staying still is usually not advised and following a successful kill, most PvP pilots tend to get out of Dodge before any enemy reenforcemnts drop on them.

Would I like more cap or drone bandwidth for my Kronos and Paladin? Sure, but not the expense of dropping a high slot I use for salvage/tractoring/ drone range increasing. I would like a Bastion 2 module to be made available. Ditto for a Salvage Drone 2 or perhaps a Marauder role bonus to drone salvage percentages. Of my 4 Marauders, I run my Kronos and Paladin the most, despite their known flaws, although if you can get CCP to improve them without reducing their effectiveness in PvE, be my guest. Just like using an Orca as an offensive platform, you can do the same with the Marauder and be very effective, but I’m not sure changing its bonuses to better support PvP is the correct path.

These ships were made for PVE it’s what their bonuses and stats were tailored for just because they sometimes work in pvp doesn’t make them pvp ships.
Also as reminder when they first came out they had no bastion or mjd bonus,weak sensor strengh and slightly different bonuses for example Kronos had same web power bonus as serpentis

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