Alliance Tournament BPC's Should Be Seeded Into the NES Store

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
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Just because the ships die once in awhile doesn’t mean they aren’t ludicrously OP vessels that would massively increase power creep if made available.

The Imp does 2.6km/s cold with a T2 AB, compared to 1.9km/s cold on a Succubus with T2 AB. The Imp also has 1 extra low, 7.5PWG more, 12.5 CPU more, and 7 effective turret slots to the Succubus’ 5. The Imp also has more agility, warps faster, more cargo, more base EHP (a lot more shield, slightly less armor/hull), more targetting range, more scan res, more sensor strength, the list goes on and on, nearly every trait will be higher on an AT ship than its plain pirate variant. The only real downside is that they have 2 rig slots instead of 3, but usually this is offset by having much higher base stats, and also 400 calibration instead of 350 is nice.

You also cite some Chremoas kills so lets look at that. The Dramiel is actually a bit faster, but the Chremoas has slightly better agility. The Chremoas has 1 extra mid, nearly double the lock range and sensor strength, slightly lower EHP but more shield EHP, 10 more PWG, over double the CPU, faster warp, more cargo, can fit a covops cloak with NO targetting delay (otherwise reserved for bombers and blops battleships), and 5s reactivation delay, 6 effective turret slots to the Dramiel’s 4, with said turrets also having more tracking and range.

Across the AT ship lineup, the ships tend to be outright better than their non-AT variants in nearly every way, with any shortcomings usually being fairly minor. The entire point of the AT ships is to be incredibly powerful but incredibly rare. On the topic of titans having formerly been OP but now not being quite as OP, to make AT ships fall in line you would either need to drastically increase the power level of everything else (power creep), or nerf the AT ships and in the process make the AT ships lose their distinctiveness, which is something nobody wants

1 Like
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Another self entitled space commie wanting the good stuff cause mommy and daddy never said no.

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I could go for this idea, as long as the AT ship BPCs cost over $10,000 each in the Eve store.

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Well, I like the way you’ve handled criticism. So kudos for that.

However, this is still P2W, and I am vehemently opposed to it on principle. Player skill is still the biggest factor in determining player outcomes, and I would like to keep it that way.

Plus, being able to buy powerful ships would be extremely damaging to player acquisition and retention. Yes, we do have things that are considered P2W (Plex) already, but this would be over the line for many players, including myself. I don’t even think I would try protest, as this would pretty much destroy any faith I had in CCP. I’d probably just quit outright.

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You still have the faith?

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yes, but recent monetization methods aren’t helping.

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Well, I like the way you’ve handled criticism. So kudos for that.

Thanks! Everyone made good points here, only a fool will close his mind to other points of view.

However, this is still P2W, and I am vehemently opposed to it on principle.

I found that out of all the responses, the criticism of potential P2W was the dominant one, and as such I think it deserves a close analysis. I think that P2W, at least in the absolute outright scale, should not be the case. For an example of what I mean, let’s say that we use my proposal, but instead of using AT hulls for it, CCP decides to release “T3 Pirate” Hulls, which for the sake of argument we’ll give an absurd number in terms of power, 10x that of a regular t1 pirate hull. This would be a disaster, because too much power will result in true pay to win, especially if they release “T3 Ammo/Modules” that have the same buff, and can only be purchased with plex.

This is why in my proposal, back in my original post, I added that it should be the BPC’s that can be purchased in the NES store. This way, we can introduce a significant ‘cost’ of production, which can allow us to properly balance the power of the ship, with the material cost. If an AT frigate hull costs 1B-2B to produce in industry, then the 3x power that it has over a t2 hull, is counterbalanced by the fact that it costs over 10x the production cost. We see this ingame with the different levels of technology. T1 is cheap but not wow, t2 is more expensive in production and is buffed comapred to t2, t3 is powerful like r2 and versatile, but needs special wormhole materials for production, and faction/pirate is like t1, but much rarer to find the BPC for, hence the cost.

Lot’s of things can be done with my proposal. My foundational goal is for CCP to make more money, using ingame assets that are very rarely used (alliance tournament is discontinued, and each AT ship death dwindles the already small supply of said ingame asset that is used in gameplay). I don’t mind the AT stats of the ships being changed for balance, they should still remain the top echelon, but properly balanced within the EVE ecosystem.

Player skill is still the biggest factor in determining player outcomes, and I would like to keep it that way.

I agree 100% with this. However what I propose, at least in part, already exists. You can buff your character with SP, assuming you sell the PLEX in order to get the isk needed to buy injectors, or buy it outright with one of the packages available in eveonline.com. You can buy all the advanced gear, even the AT ships themselves if you can afford the collectible isk price, all of this you can do right now. But that does not mean anything without player skill.

Even the Chremoas, arguably one of the most powerful AT ships according to the eve community, was killed by an Algos, and that algos pilot was likely a newbie, judging from his killboard at the time of the kill. That fit was blinged, and no doubt the pod had a good implant set, perhaps even a booster or two was active. But human pilot skill, and the fact that hull types are strongly buffed like rock paper scissors against other types (in that case, it was algos destroyer which was buffed against chremoas frigate), means that skill still reigns the day. My proposal simply fits in with what is the case now, and what I feel will likely be the case in the future, which is limited Pay to Advance, which CCP has been doing ever since the first release of PLEX.

Plus, being able to buy powerful ships would be extremely damaging to player acquisition and retention. Yes, we do have things that are considered P2W (Plex) already, but this would be over the line for many players, including myself.

How over the top is the AT ship class, that could lead to such a situation? If we give a 10 day old newbie, who can at least fit out a full fit with t1 gear, an AT frigate, will he be able to steamrole a small gang of t1 frigates? What about a small gang of destroyers? He has arguably one of the best frigate hulls in the game, but we all know that numbers, + different hull types + ewar, can quickly humble even the best setup. The 1% of pvpers can do great deeds, but what about the average pvper, how powerful is he in an AT ship? The answer is somewhat more powerful than a pirate hull, but still nowhere near game breaking.

Let me know what you think, and I apologize for any typos!

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this solution is inherently self defeating, the objective is to make it not pay to win, eve is now a game where it is very very easy (and encouraged by ccp during sales etc) to just buy plex for money to buy stuff you want, so it would just require more money to purchase or you can just be someone who has trillions of isk which is frankly not hard to do in this game anymore considering one of the main features in a certain part of space which not many people can or will go to can pay out upto 50 billion isk an hour if you have enough characters running it and thats not even factoring in loot and production income from it

having it obtainable ingame would pretty much break ship balance as it would eventually be farmed, having it obtainable via a cash/plex purchase would still break ship balance by making it infinitely more available than they are right now while also making it inherently pay2win

that being said you can still own these ships and they are pretty actively traded if you have the money for them, I was in the market for a virtuoso before the torp changes which basically tripled its value as a ship because of the bonuses it didnt lose compared to other bombers

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