Allow Friendly Fire Within a Fleet

Let me restate the idea to make it clearer.

I’m proposing a way to enable friendly fire within a fleet, so that alliances or militia fleets that use smartbombs can operate in lowsec without issues.

Additionally, our alliance recently found another use for this idea. We want to improve our piloting skills, so we’d like to run team-vs-team training. But since we’re in militia and don’t want to lose standings, we currently have to set up complicated mutual duels or go to wormholes or nullsec.

If we had the option to enable friendly fire within a fleet, we could train close to our home base.

fleet friendly fire was removed years ago; you would do well to research the reasons. can you offer assurances that such a mechanic would not be abused as in the past? you may have legit reasons for wanting it back, but you know how eve players are… at the very least, a friendly fire fleet, and it’s members, should not be able to switch on the fly.

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I assume it could be implemented so that a pilot can enable a setting indicating they are willing to join fleets with friendly fire. By default, this setting would be “no friendly fire.”

If a pilot switches this setting while in a friendly-fire fleet, or leaves such a fleet on their own (but not if they are kicked), they are removed from the fleet and receive a 30-second suspect timer.

This way, a participant won’t be able to exploit their former fleetmates.

It should not be possible to switch an existing fleet into friendly-fire mode—it must be created as a friendly-fire fleet from the start. This setting should persist when fleet command is transferred to another pilot.

This prevents recruiting unsuspecting pilots into a fleet and then switching it into friendly-fire mode afterward.

In the interface, a pilot would see both friendly-fire and non-friendly-fire fleets. If their settings specify that they only allow joining non-friendly-fire fleets, they would be prevented from joining a friendly-fire fleet. If they change the setting and attempt to join such a fleet, they would receive a warning about the potential consequences.

If Gila is the problem, just ask CCP to ban Gila in FW plex instead of introducing this complex stuff.

Drone assist has been nerfed for a lot, and smartbomb was not a good solution for Gilas in nullsec.

My experience shows that Gila fleets can kill almost anything, but Nightmare fleets can kill Gilas. I’ve flown in nullsec in 30 vs 50 engagements, both in Gila fleets and in smartbomb Nightmare fleets against Gilas.

I like Gilas. And besides countering Gilas, there are other useful aspects that friendly fire in fleets could provide.

For example, flying in RR (remote repair) setups is often prone to mistakes. You may start shooting your own fleetmate because your target disappeared and you kept them locked for reps but didn’t switch to the correct target. This leads to a standings loss with the faction, which is frustrating. The ability to do everything correctly comes with experience, but why should the game penalize mistakes if everything is happening with mutual consent?

The topic of friendly fire in fleets is not limited to rendering a strong ship ineffective.

Many people with lowsec faction warfare experience would agree with me on this. This idea comes from that experience, which has its own specifics and may not be familiar to those who haven’t been involved in it.

In most other games, if you shoot a teammate, you’ll receive a much harsher penalty than just losing faction standings.

You can still enable friendly fire within the same corporation with the right settings.

Friendly fire causes no issues in nullsec, very few issues in lowsec, but it’s a huge problem in highsec. So if the goal is to solve the lowsec issues, you could simply scope the solution to lowsec.

I have already answered this in my posts on this topic. And I explained in detail why this is not a solution and why it is not fair. Allow Friendly Fire Within a Fleet - #16 by Iv_d_Este

So, you’ve read my proposal about introducing a pilot-side toggle. The toggle determines which fleets a pilot is willing to join. And? What major problems would this actually cause in highsec? Let’s look at concrete scenarios, because I feel like I’ve already explained how I see this working and how potential issues could be avoided.

What’s needed here is an outside perspective—someone who can carefully examine the idea and bring up an argument that hasn’t been mentioned yet. Why would friendly fire, with a toggle option on pilot side and strict fleet-level binding (either friendly fire enabled or disabled at creation), lead to problems in highsec?

i did. you refused to address it.

it was known as ‘the lofty’ after a player who used then-allowed fleet friendly fire to fleet with unsuspecting players, and legally blow them up and take their stuff…

*seeing that you have recently edited your original post, it’s safe to say you hadn’t thought it out very well. over complicate the process, it will never be implemented. leave it simple, and it’s subject to abuse. it’s been asked for many times over the years, eg. for having pvp tournaments, but there’s already work arounds in game, as you have stated.

What mechanics are you talking about? Do you mean that all alliances participating in a fleet running an ice heist should merge into a single corporation?

Is that the mechanic that’s supposed to be used?

What’s so complicated about splitting fleets into two types?

What’s so complicated about giving players a filter that allows or prevents them from joining those fleets?

You haven’t provided a single abuse scenario for the proposal that emerged during this discussion.

You’re talking about existing mechanics, but mechanics from nullsec have already been introduced into lowsec, and new content (pirate insurgencies) has been added targeting FW players, which requires revisiting existing mechanics to restore balance.

Where previously neutral fleets had little reason to interact with FW players and drone ships were less common, now this happens frequently.

We still have the same old smartbomb mechanics. You’re saying we should rely on existing mechanics—but I’m saying that using them properly requires changes. They don’t work effectively as-is.

You mentioned the old “lofty” scam. That scenario relied on one key thing: players being unknowingly placed into a situation where friendly fire was possible.
My proposal explicitly prevents that.

  • A fleet must be created with friendly fire enabled from the start
  • It cannot be switched afterward
  • A pilot must explicitly allow joining such fleets via a personal setting

This setting should be disabled by default
Without that setting enabled, joining such fleets is impossible

This means you cannot trick players into a fleet and then enable friendly fire, nor can you bring in unaware participants at all.
So the original abuse scenario is not applicable here.

At the same time, I do see a potential abuse scenario in highsec related to suspect timers when leaving such fleets, and I am explicitly proposing a way to prevent it.

In lowsec (and below), a pilot who leaves a fleet with friendly fire enabled — or disconnects — would receive a 30-second suspect timer. This prevents situations where someone leaves the fleet and is accidentally hit by smartbombs, causing unintended standings or legal consequences for the rest of the fleet.

In highsec, no suspect timer would be applied on leaving the fleet.

This removes the possibility of abuse in highsec while still addressing the actual problem in environments where these mechanics are relevant.

What abuse scenarios do you see, given a split between fleets with friendly fire enabled and disabled, along with a player-side toggle that determines whether they can join friendly-fire fleets?

What existing mechanics already allow full use of smartbombs within fleets, considering their demand in updated faction warfare and in inter-alliance faction fleets, which are now the norm? What exactly do you mean?

I believe it would be possible to create two subclasses from the existing fleet class and add properties like “friendly fire on” and “friendly fire off.” It would also make sense to add a property to the character that is checked before joining a fleet, as well as a flag indicating how the character left the fleet within the last 30 seconds.

Of course, developers write code with future changes and extensions in mind. They use interfaces to work with entities in an abstract way.

These kinds of changes don’t seem particularly complex to me.

I propose introducing two distinct fleet types: fleets with friendly fire enabled and fleets with friendly fire disabled, which must be defined at the moment of fleet creation and cannot be changed afterward.

Each pilot would have a personal setting that determines whether they are allowed to join fleets with friendly fire enabled. This setting would be disabled by default, preventing accidental or uninformed participation, and would require explicit opt-in.

In addition, to prevent edge-case abuse in environments where fleet combat and smartbomb usage are common, a 30-second suspect timer would be applied in lowsec and below when a pilot voluntarily leaves or disconnects from a friendly-fire-enabled fleet. This mechanic would not apply in highsec.

This approach preserves existing fleet safety expectations in highsec, while enabling structured and consent-based friendly fire gameplay in lowsec and faction warfare.

the more complicated, the less likely it is to happen.. with two types of fleets, tickbox on every player (with pop ups, of course) and you still haven’t eliminated all avenues of abuse. a good idea that many players would like, but no real way to implement. i’ll leave you to your thread, with a couple more thougbts to ponder…

first, you’ve single-handedly brought back awox’ing; now i can kill same-alliance members w/ no standing hit. gg

and, we all fit to resists the same smartbomb damage, but i’m not smartbomb fit. i’m fit to shoot into the holes the fleet hasn’t tanked and you can’t do anything as i kill your guys with no penalty.

and i’m a mean FC and as we start smarbombing i kick everyone and you all get a standings hit.

and i leave fleet and get suspect, but i shoot your guys as above and get a limited engagement and laugh as i kill more of your guys..

or i’m a mean enemy FC and as you start your little smart-bomb i online my fleet of same-as-you-militia alts and yeet them into your fireball and you all get kicked from militia for friendly-fire

i could go on but that will keep you busy for a bit, but i saved the best for last; you know why fleet-friendly fire was removed? was it the tears of new players? the destruction of pve fitted ships? billions lost to an unclear mechanic?

nope. it was the resulting petitions queue. because no matter how many safeguards, pop-ups, warnings, red-letters, etc.. Idintknow is gonna die and petition his loss. after all, Idintknow..

GL HF

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