Alpha changes: Best (Battle)ship for LvL4 missions


(JC Mieyli) #91

i think you would be a lot poorer
geckos aggro very easy and they are slow
they take a lot of damage and take a long time to return to your ship
if they get webbed they are dead
also rs is very slow and you have to brawl everything in the room with alpha skills
this whole idea seems like a waste of time and torture for any player
just use a gila


(Zola Kado) #92

With Cruise missile systems you can easily sync the launcher cycle with missile flight time even on RNI. There will be 0 wasted salvos.

People usually skipping one thing. Gecko is omni-damage, but mission rats dont have omni-tank. You will lose like 15% damage compared to rat specific damage type.


(Lena Crews) #93

I haven’t had that experience with a Gecko in either missions or in DED sites. Granted I use it only with the rattlesnake (and it’s 275% hp bonus) and I’ve upped the tracking so it pops most frigates easily (though occasionally I have to send out a flight of lights).

The gecko tracks better than hammerhead II’s and are nearly as fast (2016 for hammerhead II, 1820 for Gecko… and 1200 for Ogre II). As for aggro… I always use missiles for my RS’s… so maybe I don’t have aggro issues because of that. The gecko gets aggro at times… but normally it kills all the small stuff before damage becomes an issue.

Now being slow… it’s a slow ship. There are only maybe 4 or 5 BS that are slower. If blitz speed is your main criteria than go with a machariel and don’t worry about the lower DPS. If you’re looking to clear while having almost no chance to doe… the Rattlesnake is the way to go.

Gila is great too… but the discussion is battleships.


(Lena Crews) #94

First… what exactly do you mean with syncing launcher cycle with missile flight time? Are you talking about maintaining a certain distance to make sure you don’t have missiles in flight when enemies die?

If so… that’s frankly a huge pain in the butt to manage. If not… please explain what you mean. I’m happy to learn something new.

Second, the math doesn’t quite work out that way.

here is a resistance profile average for deadspace angel cartel rats (could be dated… not sure)
EM - 57% EXP-30% Kin-39% Therm-48%

So if you did 100pts of base damage with amarr drones… you’d apply 43. 52 with gallente, 61 with Caldari, and 70 with minmatar (best option).

100 points of omni damage would be 56.5… which would be a 20% drop.

However the base damage is different for each. Since the gecko uses as much bandwidth/space as two heavies:

If you assume racial drone specialization IV, here are the damage for 2 of each drone and the gecko against Angel rats.

Beserker II - 37.33 DPS
Wasp II - 37.95
Ogre II - 34.50
Praetor II - 24.96
Gecko - 37.06

Other than those rats with extreme kinetic or thermal resists (since the top base damages are Ogres and Wasps), the Gecko usually ends up equal in damage to the T2 drones with lvl 4 racial specializations.

T1 variants lose about 15-20% of the T2 damage… across all weapon systems. The Gecko being allowed means alphas don’t lose that 15-20% with that being their primary weapon system.

It’s not that the Rattlesnake using a Gecko is the best answer overall… it’s just the best answer for Alphas I believe. It gives them T2 effectiveness with a primary weapon system while other ships are limited to T1.


(JC Mieyli) #95

with an ogre 2 you launch it when youre about 15km from a bs not from max drone control range
i mean with a gecko exclusive rs youre gonna have to go really slowly into close range with everything before you launch it i think
meaning you get full aggro on your ship at close range
and then you have missions with stasis towers
and missions with spider drones
just seems like a really contrived way to run missions to me


(Tiddle Jr) #96

Interesting why that doesn’t work for turrets and launchers :thinking:


Level 4 Alpha FIts
(Zola Kado) #97

Lets say your targeting range is 100 km and your launcher cycle is 8 sec. So your missiles have 8 sec to reach the target at your maximum targeting range. For this, you need 12,5 km/s missile velocity. The rest is some simulation in pyfa to reach this missile speed with 1-2 rigs or modules.

Barghest with T2 fury + T2 Cruise launchers and 4x T2 BCS have 8.5s launcher cycle and 21 km/s missile velocity. Max targeting range without any extension is 95 km. You will hit the target at half launcher cycle.

RNI with same setup have 8.5s launcher cycle and 10,5km/s missile velocity. Max targeting range without any extension is 94 km. Launcher will cycle at 89km missile distance, so if you want to hit the 94km, you need to fit a T2 MGE into last low slot and will cover the missing range. There will be no wasted salvos.


(Nunosh) #98

Guys, do you have any coments on the Megathron?


(Zola Kado) #99

Not really suitable for mission running.


(Anderson Geten) #100

Are you sure the missiles always fly at max speed ?


(Zola Kado) #101

This math is only theory. In practice you need to deal with lags, server ticks, desyncs, npc movements, missile launch, etc. So you will have a little more speed buffer. Its like a minute or two to try out your fit anyway.


(Tiddle Jr) #102

Railthron with nanofit is kind of ok for that purposes.


(Stellar Rhoa) #103

Maybe you guys would be interested in helping me with my ideas for a Rattlesnake for Alpha L4 mission running:


(JC Mieyli) #104

here are some fits i would recommend using over a rs

maelstrom
requires 3% pg implant
recommend faction ammo the guns have slow cycle times so shouldnt cost too much
use relevant harderners
use a better shield booster if you want

[Maelstrom, alpha mael]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Thermal Dissipation Field II
100MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner

1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP L

Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

hyperion
use faction ammo
a bit tankier than mael use the right harderners
switch tracking scripts as needed

[Hyperion, alpha hype]

Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

100MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
F-90 Compact Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script
Large Cap Battery II

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[Empty High slot]

Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator II
Large Nanobot Accelerator I
[Empty Rig slot]

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5


(Eneela Yatasia) #105

Anyone have a fit for the raven?


(JC Mieyli) #106

i didnt do a raven fit because alpha missile skills look kinda crummy to me compared to alpha gunnery skills
probably something like this though

[Raven, alpha raven]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Thermal Dissipation Field II
100MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script

‘Arbalest’ Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
’Arbalest’ Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
’Arbalest’ Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
’Arbalest’ Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
’Arbalest’ Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
’Arbalest’ Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
[Empty High slot]

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II


(Tiddle Jr) #107

I recommend Typhoon over a Raven. The last one pretty weak in terms of scan res and targeting distance.


(Petty Antonelli) #108

Hi, I am new here. This Rattlesnake fit is Stable? I tried to put in pyfa and its not Stable even with “all 5” skills. Its suppose to be played with an unstable capacitor? Like toggling on/off modules acording the situation?

thanks.

=)

[Rattlesnake, alpha PVE rapid heavy]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

Gist X-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive
Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Pithum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Republic Fleet Target Painter

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x5
Gecko x1
Federation Navy Ogre x2

(from original post)


(Anderson Geten) #109

turn it off.
You should be cap stable with medium shield booster + large cap.
If you are not, I suggest replacing the therm rig with another CCC. Though I would instead put a solidifier, as I think cap stability is overrated.


(Songbird) #110

First of all - when calculating shield boosting vs armor boosting you need to take into account a few things: passive shield recharge (which a RS can use as a main tank) , faction boosters - can be very energy effective. Shield boost amplifiers - that’s 36% more boost for the t2 version. Boost comes at the beginning of the cycle rather than the end. Invulnerability fields best energized adaptive membranes come to 35 % with perfect skills, while best invulns go up to 45%(56% when overheated) . Last but not least - for PVE you want as many damage mods as you can fit, and while a ship can be tanked with 2 armor modules, which take away 2 slots for damage modules, a shield ships uses no low modules - you can pack it up with damage mods.