Hey,
Is there no penality using more of one type of modules ?
ok, we have to consider a few things here.
if you want to be a sniper, the dominix is a better option than the RS.
- it does not have to fit modules for BOTH missiles and drone dmg.
- it can be armor tanked, thus using the reactive armor hardener - and having more efficient rep than the shield(T2 armor rep are 53% more efficient than T2 shield boosters). Also having good armor rigs (auxiliary nano pump).
- even though its paper DPS is lower than rattle’s, this actually only matters for BS rats. for anything smaller, the lack of apply from the rattle means the effective dps of the dominix is better
- it has better cap than rattle. Combined with better efficiency of armor rep, this means almost T2 capstable dominix
- using no weap in high means wayyyyyyy easier to fit.
dominix sentry fit
[Dominix, pve L4 armor]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Booster II
Heavy Stasis Grappler II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Auto Targeting System II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Imperial Navy Curator x5
Federation Navy Ogre x5
Caldari Navy Warden x5
Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
This fit is able to hit for 400 dps at range ~130 km, with a rep of 400 ehp/s vs explosive only (the lowest resist)
If you want to brawl, you still can as the grappler + omni ensures your drones will shoot the frigs with ease. However the tank is still light, keep it for that moment a pesky rat closed the gap between his friends and you faster than it needs to say “I fnckeq nb”
also you can switch one energized adaptive for a specific hardener. Or both.
Alphas can’t use Sentry drones.
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I may have mis understood the previous post I was answering to …
Good question. Imho its not a big deal. RS is one of the most skill intense subcaps. The hull itself have 0 damage application bonuses. You need skill up 2 BS skills, 2 weapon skills, damage application skills for 2 weapon systems.
I disagree. If you don’t fit cruise missiles, the rattlesnake equals the dominix (and is better if you have only gallente BS IV). The RS gets 275% bonus to sentries and heavies… so if it fliex 2 heavies it has the equivalent of 7.5 heavy drones (2 * 3.75). The dominix at level 4 gets a 40% bonus… so the equivalent of 7 heavy drones (1.4 * 5). The benefit the dominix gets is the tracking/range bonus… while the Rattlesnake adds extra missile damage.
I basically treat missile damage as extra. I fit for tank and drones… and then throw missile stuff on to fill up empty space. You can use mods to make your gecko track frigates. Even without tracking mods it crushes cruisers and up with no issue. And the shield resists make the Rattlesnake tank way better than a dominix. My RS with no missile launchers should still clears anoms faster and is always in less danger than the dominix. Heck… I can’t remember the last time my shields went below 50% in missions or anoms.
My view is that the only situation where a dominix comes close is with sentries (due to range and tracking bonuses). But first of all… that doesn’t apply in either boat to an alpha as they can’t use sentries. And even with Omegas… the loss in range and tracking is usually made up for with the extra missile damage.
The biggest problem people have is trying to turn the rattlesnake into a missile boat. It’s a drone boat with missiles added in my opinion.
Uh… the hull has a 275% damage bonus to heavy and sentry drones.
It’s a role bonus, so alphas get the full 275%.
An alpha with lvl 1 BS skills gets the same amount of damage with their heavy drones (or gecko) that an Omega with lvl 5 gallente BS would get in a dominix (though the tracking bonus on the dominix might help application in certain scenarios).
The path that always made sense for me was to skill up drones and progress from Tristan to Algos to Vexor to VNI to Dominix… and then switch to Rattlesnake and start training missile skills. Even without good missile skills the Rattlesnake equals the dominix in damage(or exceeds it if you didn’t train Gallente BS to V)… and has a better tank.
edit just noticed the “application” piece. So yeah, that’s true but the gecko tracks really well normally (better than the Caldari medium T2 drones). So I’m not sure it’s as much of a hindrance.
Gecko have the same tracking, what t2 berserker have. But it still need to travel around. And even with 275% hitpoint bonus they can be destroyed or you can just forget it somewhere, and thats like -90m isk. With alpha i would use RNI or Barghest. Decent dps with faction cruise ammo and faster to skill in.
I tend to disagree on missile ships. While people talk about travel time being wasted DPS for drones… you still have wasted DPS from missiles (if at range) where the salvo is fired before the prior salvo strikes and destroys the ship. The Barghest velocity bonus helps with that
Because of the Gecko, (which tracks better than the hammerhead and Vespa T2 mediums and equal to the Beserker T2 heavies), you get T2 heavy weapon damage despite being in an Alpha state. Drones are also (in my opinion) the easiest way to apply damage to smaller targets when you’re talking about heavy weapon systems.
I understand if you want to MAX a Rattlesnake for PVE, it will take more time to get both missile and drone skills to the best levels. But I think if you used a rattlesnake with a gecko and no missile launchers at all… you’d still be on par with the best missile ships. Minimal missile skills would put you ahead. Good missile skills would put you way ahead.
Again… only because the Gecko allows you to get T2 primary weapon system damage without needing the skills for T2 heavy drones.
i think you would be a lot poorer
geckos aggro very easy and they are slow
they take a lot of damage and take a long time to return to your ship
if they get webbed they are dead
also rs is very slow and you have to brawl everything in the room with alpha skills
this whole idea seems like a waste of time and torture for any player
just use a gila
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With Cruise missile systems you can easily sync the launcher cycle with missile flight time even on RNI. There will be 0 wasted salvos.
People usually skipping one thing. Gecko is omni-damage, but mission rats dont have omni-tank. You will lose like 15% damage compared to rat specific damage type.
I haven’t had that experience with a Gecko in either missions or in DED sites. Granted I use it only with the rattlesnake (and it’s 275% hp bonus) and I’ve upped the tracking so it pops most frigates easily (though occasionally I have to send out a flight of lights).
The gecko tracks better than hammerhead II’s and are nearly as fast (2016 for hammerhead II, 1820 for Gecko… and 1200 for Ogre II). As for aggro… I always use missiles for my RS’s… so maybe I don’t have aggro issues because of that. The gecko gets aggro at times… but normally it kills all the small stuff before damage becomes an issue.
Now being slow… it’s a slow ship. There are only maybe 4 or 5 BS that are slower. If blitz speed is your main criteria than go with a machariel and don’t worry about the lower DPS. If you’re looking to clear while having almost no chance to doe… the Rattlesnake is the way to go.
Gila is great too… but the discussion is battleships.
First… what exactly do you mean with syncing launcher cycle with missile flight time? Are you talking about maintaining a certain distance to make sure you don’t have missiles in flight when enemies die?
If so… that’s frankly a huge pain in the butt to manage. If not… please explain what you mean. I’m happy to learn something new.
Second, the math doesn’t quite work out that way.
here is a resistance profile average for deadspace angel cartel rats (could be dated… not sure)
EM - 57% EXP-30% Kin-39% Therm-48%
So if you did 100pts of base damage with amarr drones… you’d apply 43. 52 with gallente, 61 with Caldari, and 70 with minmatar (best option).
100 points of omni damage would be 56.5… which would be a 20% drop.
However the base damage is different for each. Since the gecko uses as much bandwidth/space as two heavies:
If you assume racial drone specialization IV, here are the damage for 2 of each drone and the gecko against Angel rats.
Beserker II - 37.33 DPS
Wasp II - 37.95
Ogre II - 34.50
Praetor II - 24.96
Gecko - 37.06
Other than those rats with extreme kinetic or thermal resists (since the top base damages are Ogres and Wasps), the Gecko usually ends up equal in damage to the T2 drones with lvl 4 racial specializations.
T1 variants lose about 15-20% of the T2 damage… across all weapon systems. The Gecko being allowed means alphas don’t lose that 15-20% with that being their primary weapon system.
It’s not that the Rattlesnake using a Gecko is the best answer overall… it’s just the best answer for Alphas I believe. It gives them T2 effectiveness with a primary weapon system while other ships are limited to T1.
with an ogre 2 you launch it when youre about 15km from a bs not from max drone control range
i mean with a gecko exclusive rs youre gonna have to go really slowly into close range with everything before you launch it i think
meaning you get full aggro on your ship at close range
and then you have missions with stasis towers
and missions with spider drones
just seems like a really contrived way to run missions to me
Lets say your targeting range is 100 km and your launcher cycle is 8 sec. So your missiles have 8 sec to reach the target at your maximum targeting range. For this, you need 12,5 km/s missile velocity. The rest is some simulation in pyfa to reach this missile speed with 1-2 rigs or modules.
Barghest with T2 fury + T2 Cruise launchers and 4x T2 BCS have 8.5s launcher cycle and 21 km/s missile velocity. Max targeting range without any extension is 95 km. You will hit the target at half launcher cycle.
RNI with same setup have 8.5s launcher cycle and 10,5km/s missile velocity. Max targeting range without any extension is 94 km. Launcher will cycle at 89km missile distance, so if you want to hit the 94km, you need to fit a T2 MGE into last low slot and will cover the missing range. There will be no wasted salvos.
Guys, do you have any coments on the Megathron?
Not really suitable for mission running.
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Are you sure the missiles always fly at max speed ?