Except that also breaks eula. Its specifically 1 player 1 alpha allowed (& no omegas at the same time also). The fact that we know people can cheat doesn’t mean something is a bad idea. Or all drones should be deleted from the game. And fof missiles. and smart bombs. and the Bfg. etc.
Because all of those can be easily used to run bots with also. (ok. some do want those things removed for that reason I’ll agree).
Also
Beats said ISD post by 10 posts.
Hi there slippery slope. We meet again. Remember how i put that into the thread earlier? Remember how I accepted that it was exactly that? I do. Props to the one who called me out again.
So we’re back to the square argument:
To which my answer is still no. You’ve already got access to a battleship which can give you faster mining for faster incomes which are not only verifiable but in this page listed for convenience. 5 drones only boosts this further. If you’re not willing to take that step to get into a barge by subscribing or plexing to test it out (for no real life money) then it’s not really going to improve the venture miners. It’s going to improve the battleship afk miners who are fit to mine in null space with 5 lasers, a fleet hangar or can to dump the ore into, and 5 augmented mining drones all focused on killing off that very pretty megacyte production rock with an alpha account.
I’m done here. There isn’t a single argument for why an alpha should have access to augmented mining drones still.
These people literally do not exist. you are not afk mining in a battleship miner.
Especially not if you add drones.
Stop talking rubbish.
This is true your cargo is too small for afk business
Because nothing can be done which would make things work without input.
If you want to discuss the status of Alpha accounts, make a thread of your own, do not hyjack another like you would stomp on a lonely Alpha miner in your T3 frigate.
I want to thank a lot of you for the input in the discussion, a lot of valid arguments ‘for’ and some rather far fetched but still a possible concern ‘against’ … what I tend to miss in the ‘against’ arguments, especially for AFK mining, is the CARGO SPACE :
And while i like all the numbers, i seem to lack numbers on actual Mining Barges . It’s one to compare equal numbers for alpha’s, but seeing it’s about the difference between Alpha and Omega (as against people keep bringing up), it’s fair to also put up some numbers of the Omega ships, to see what sort of difference this actually makes. Again going off of @Markus Gideon numbers:
Abaddon:
93.2 m3 per laser = 745.6 m3 (currently legal for Alphas)
35 m3 per drone = 175 m3 (currently illegal for Alphas)
TOTAL = 920.6 m3
Vexor:
85.5 m3 per laser = 342 m3 (legal)
49 m3 per drone = 245 m3 (illegal)
TOTAL = 587 m3
Venture:
188 m3 per laser = 376 m3 (legal)
35 m3 per drone = 70 m3 (illegal)
TOTAL = 446 m3
Omega Barge:
??? m3 per laser = ??? m3 (legal)
??? m3 per drone = ??? m3 (legal)
A good mining BS is in the same range as a barge from memory. So expect a barge at 1000 with just strips. plus the 175 for drones.
At a rough estimate
Another thing that i would like to point out is that there are possibilities (i will safely assume) to limit Alpha’s to certain drones. An alpha can have 5 (mining) drones, does it matter if those are merely Civilian and Light mining drones, and the use of medium ones and above is restricted. Surely there is an intermediate solution that can satisfy both ends, and aids in enjoyment of gameplay with reasonable restrictions and payer benefits.
Heck, even merely Civilian ones would be fine by me, seeing that while it is true that i would want to squeeze out as much mining as i can (thus i will likely set up a BS mining operation), it’s also about seeing that ‘Civilian’ thing and realizing that as an Alpha i’m viewed as less than a civilian, heck, based on some of the comments in this thread, apparently i am a paria that is to be culled and made to shut up, that only asks for more and doesn’t contribute anything. Guess i’m right at home in the Gallente Federation… 
Would also like to add that looking at these numbers i am quite amazed at the output of BS miners (be it that their CargoHold is extremely limited) … think it may even be fair to cull that down a bit ? (although i do wonder if these numbers are generated with max skill level or ‘max for alpha’ which can make quite a difference… A ‘curve’ like this would be fine by me:
Alpha
Industry ~ 178m3 (at ~6k m3 hold), at ~2.5M ISK … 72m3 L + 106m3 D x3 = 178m3 Gallente basic Ind.
Venture ~ 450m3 (at 5k m3 hold), at ~5M ISK
Vexor ~ 600m3 (at ~1k m3 hold), at ~20M ISK
BS ~ 750m3 (at ~1k m3 hold), at ~75M ISK
Omega
Barge ~ 1200m3 (at ~?? m3 hold), at ??M ISK
This toning down might well be fairly easy, by bringing down the CPU requirement for Large Turrets, and toning down the CPU of the Battleships respectively. As the CPU is the main limiter in running Miners on these bigger ships, while the amount of Fighting Turrets for it’s CPU is obviously as intended… (this as opposed to upping CPU for Mining Turrets, which effects every other option).
Then if i look at the numbers, mining drones are ‘just fine’, if the BS is intended to mine at 750 and gets toned down in CPU to restrict the amount of Mining Turrets, the difference can be made up with drones.
ADDITION:
While looking over these numbers i wonder if the curve isn’t to favorable for Alphas? … or not favorable enough for Omega’s (which ever way you want to look at it); As this could/should also be the route paying customers will have to take to increase their yields as they work towards that Barge. Maybe something like:
Venture: 450m3
Cruiser: 550m3
BattleS: 650m3
Barge: 1200m3
Because at the current curve (disregarding cruisers as an option, unless drones), when you start to pay you go up a venture in yield from a BS (and i guess the hassle of safe tin mining), which sounds hardly worth it (?) … Doubling though, with a good cargo hold, that sounds like a thing worth doing if you truly like EVE and mining.
OR, lets be entirely open here in options:
CORRECTION:
I have made a mistake with the Light ORE barge, seeing EVE is a game of trade off’s, optimization and bending the rules, to get some sort of feeling of getting ahead. The Light Barge should mine a 600m3, with a hold slightly bigger than the intermediate of Venture and Barge. This way the BS can still out mine it in speed, and an alpha can feel (s)he bent the rules and eventually ‘out mined’ a paying customer’s first target upgrade; while said customer gets the feeling of getting ahead due to the speed of availability of said barge (at cruiser skill level) with the ease of the bigger hold. And as the paying customer gets his/her barge they can feel they got ahead again in speed and hold. While the Alpha can feel content that indeed a paying customer should have the advantage in the end, but hey, they found a way to bend the rules a bit and beat the Light Barge in mining speed and squeezed every last bit out of that BS.
We call them expedition frigates which I am in favor of giving level 1 access to for alphas but not deep core mining, mining drones, or ice mining. If they’re interested this gives them a stepping stone to “taste” better mining ships.
Do they really need a “taste” of better mining craft? They get a taste of mining in general, and they know there are better craft to be had. So they can Omega up and get one.
There’s a problem with giving away too many free samples. Pretty soon people are full, and they don’t want to pay you a dime.
And that is why I will not give them the mining skills beyond base, no to the mining drones, and no to the ice mining being free. You can jump into a barge in 30 minutes from venture 3 training. Expedition frigs need a full month to hit from zero. The only thing you would gain from it is a bit of space and the option to choose. Do you want that warp core stability? Do you want that additional mining upgrade? Is it really worth pushing so far for something so easily skipped in full by just going to a barge? You can even get the drones before you could push into an expedition frigate for the barge.
A choice beyond subscribe or stuck with Venture or fleet mining.
I’ve never seen such a passion to expand a positively soul-sucking activity.
Every single miner in the game when they pass an asteroid:
And to think I sometimes mine in a Rokh. For fun. I’m a true sadist…
So, i looked into that yesterday a bit more. Because after i wrote the suggestion on the Light Barge i remembered myself that i didn’t actually have any idea of the current setup (hey i saw that omega sign and didn’t really look on, there is already so much info to take in when you start out ~ so i did yesterday after i wrote that, i know bit of the wrong order but i was typing here what came to mind, anyways…)
The expedition frigates take a ‘whole load’ of time to get to, and even a barge does (no clue where you get those 30min from, esp. if you actually want to have some skill operating that thing, not to mention just ‘regular skills’ for actually playing the game). And those ships (regular barge and expedition frigates) didn’t really impress me much (though i can see the use for the expedition frigates, they are probably fine as is).
Those barges though, and maybe it’s my current skill level with which i simulated them, aren’t really that great? A 7000m3 hold on the fastest one? … or a big hold with mining speeds that make a T2 outfitted Venture Miner Giggle (to then continue to smash their heads against their desk as they wait for 5k m3 to fill up, as well as realizing that is their path of progress… Aka. they will be flying that Venture for the next 2 months or so chipping away at Astroids while they wait for the skills to progress to a point where a barge may actually make some sort of sense somewhere. (This while they see that just training some ship skills will get you to a Cruiser with medium skills in under 6 days).
And this was my main ‘ponder’ when looking at the ship tree for Mining… where is the Mining Cruiser ?!? (well, it used to be there as a regular cruiser, but seeing those have pretty much been nerfed for mining, i will assume by now this has more to do with Frustration in the player base regarding there being more Giant Secure Containers in belts than actual asteroids to mine.
So what i would like to see, well i guess in the next post:
Sure, time to train barge is 30 minutes for level 1. In fact:
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Procurer
Full training time from absolutely nothing to barge is just under 9 days standard training time. Most of that can be done with alpha status for zero bucks including Science 4. Astrogeology would probably be the only roadblock at a whole 13 hours 20 minutes so ok, 14 hours after you subscribe you can be in a barge. In the meantime:
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Prospect
Just shy of 30 days. The only change for Prospect would be 1 more level of mining frigate and then the expedition skill. Nothing more. In fact wouldn’t really consider more than level 1 allowed for an alpha clone as it does give you quite a bit of hold space and options to fit different than a Venture.
That actually is the barges.
ORE Progress (possibly Alpha & Omega)
Hull Type: Cruiser
Bonusses: Same as Venture
Fitting: Turrets: 2, High: 3, Mid: 4, Low: 3
Hold: 5m3 (basically 1 drone or some modules)
Ore Hold: 6000m3
Drones: 25m3 / 25Mbit
Skills:
ORE Pristine (Omega Only)
Hull Type: Cruiser
Bonusses: Same as Venture
Fitting: Turrets: 3, High: 3, Mid: 4, Low: 3
Hold: 50m3
Ore Hold: 6500m3
Drones: 50m3 / 50Mbit
Skills:
Obviously the above are ‘Rough Suggestions to get the idea’ please don’t fixate to much on the details, it’s a suggestion thus they could be tuned (if you have certain concerns, then obviously do share them, in a constructive manner). Obviously the Barges could do with some improvements, mainly in speed and hold, as far as i’m concerned.
Also want to add that we are living in a different time, f/e scanning for Anomalies is no longer needed, because people didn’t want to spend the time on it. Meaning that waiting 1month+ to have a decent barge to mine in (basically fly the venture for that time) may well put people off as they do NOT SEE any PROGRESS (get it 