LOL, I wondered how long it would be before someone screamed foul.
Or whined that even with the massive boost Alphas are about to get it still wouldn’t be enough…
This will go on forever, because regardless of what CCP do going forward Alpha players will always create a self entitled whinefest.
Is it just me that’s seeing the obvious contradiction here?
Well the respec comes in the form of skill extractors/injectors
I think it’s just you, because that isn’t a contradiction. CCP has not announced anything about if there will or will not be a respec with the Alpha change, in the past when there have been major training changes there have been respecs given. To say the update is unfair would be to assume that it is not coming with a respec, which we don’t know, so I’m not saying anything about if the update is fair or not. There isn’t enough information. I am saying the skill change will be fair if it includes a respec, which it might already. That is not a contradiction.
Of course the post you replied to already said that, and if you read the post that that post was replying to it would be obvious that the reply was addressing the comment about us not knowing the details of the update. But, if you intentionally take things out of context, you can make just about anything sound like a contradiction.
Obviously you are full of Alpha hate, which I fully expected to encounter in posting this. But, once again I will say this isn’t asking for “more”.
This is two groups of players (old Alphas and new Alphas) who were both offered the same thing (play the game without subbing or PLExing) but the offer (because it has changed) gives a materiel advantage to the late adopters. Normally that isn’t how business is done, you reward more the ones who came on board first.
It’s like a kickstater where you pledge before launch for a price, and then it launches at half the price.
This thread isn’t asking for anything thing “more” then the promised update that Alphas will be able to choose and train 5mil SP from a set of 20mil without subbing, PLEXing, or injecting. Old Alphas can only have that with a respec.
The Alpha updates would not be possible without the Alpha accounts that have been created in the past year, it would not be fair nor kind to “reward” them with a less playable character then is given to the new Alphas. I hope that CCP has already considered this, and is planning a respec, we don’t know yet.
Alphas can’t use extractors/injectors, I assume you meant injectors/extractors. (The order makes a big difference.)
CCP has never given out “respecs”. When a skill has been removed from the game, you got the skillpoints back OR when a skill has had its meaning SUBSTANTIALLY changed, you get your SP back. Otherwise, their stance is no respecs.
how much sp should be respecced for it to be fair
Yes, I understand, and that is my argument, that I don’t expect everyone to agree with me about, is that the meaning of Alpha has SUBSTANTIALLY changed and so it could make sense to give back the SP, which the old Alpha could then put back into the new skill selection matrix. It wouldn’t give them any advantage over any other players, it would just treat things like the new Alpha training options had existed since the launch of Alpha.
Really, it wouldn’t even be that, because an original Alpha has had months of no skill training, and training the last 0,5mil of SP available to them would have to start now and would not be given to them retrospectively.
I don’t know, that’s why I started the thread to engage the conversation, to hear other people’s opinions.
So far, mostly I’ve just heard Alpha-hate. 
What do you think might be fair? This could be a raw SP number, or it could be a percent of SP they have already trained. The Alpha change is about giving Alphas more play choices, without them having to pay. I don’t think they would actually get many choices if there is only 0,5mil SP to choose from.
to allow every player to respec the same amount regardless of whether they are alpha or omega
that could be a hard number or a percentage like you said
probably gonna end up costing ccp a lot in extractor sales
It could cost in extractor sales, but seeing as CCP is a for profit company, I assume that Alpha clones are making them money, and they think expanding the skill set for Alphas will make them more money.
I understand how a respec to all players would be fair (what one gets, everyone gets), but I would argue it is about the choice they had at the time, any training done as an Omega was not limited in the choices, and those choices have not been changed by the Alpha change.
I don’t know if CCP has the means to track if training in the past occurred as an Alpha or an Omega, but if they do I would suggest the respec should cover some percentage of total SP trained as an Alpha that is not required for a currently trained Omega skill. This would apply to all Alpha skills trained from the launch of Alpha states to the update, regardless of current clone state.
The skills themselves won’t change and they are still useable for alpha (or omega) so I’m gonna go with no respec.
Thanks for your input.
Like I said, I didn’t expect to get a lot of support or agreement. I’m just happy we found some conversation and not just Alpha-hate.
Even though you don’t feel a respec would be offered or needed, would you like to contribute to the discussion of what it could look like if it were to be given? The point of the thread is to get ideas going, and if CCP sees the thread, and if they aren’t already planning something along these lines to get them thinking or considering it.
I’ll put it this way…
If CCP gives Alphas a respec, I’ll expect one for my PAID accounts, or Omega accounts if you prefer…
Something I don’t remember happening in the last 5 1/2 years.
Yes we’ve had skills altered, yes we’ve had skill points awarded after server hiccups etc, but as far as I can think, never a respec.
As for Alpha hate, no it is not. It’s fed up of players whining about how they should get more and more without paying.
Alphas are here, fair enough. But maybe players like you should just accept it for what it is and be thankful for the chance?
Of course “Omega” is preferred to “PAID” since not all Omega accounts are paid. I know, cue rants about Omegas paying with ISK for a PLEX that had to be paid for with real money. But the truth of any transaction is: if you aren’t paying real money for the product, you aren’t the “customer” you are the “product”.
PLEXed Omegas and Alphas are players, but neither is CCP’s customers they are both potential customers and products that are being sold to improve the game for paying customers.
Yes it is, I’ve seen it on the forums and in-game chat for the past year since Alpha clones states were released. Things like “alpha is just an unlimited trial” and snide and negative remarks against “f2p” players (the irony being that much of the hate has come from f2p PLEXed accounts). As I’ve now said at least five times, this isn’t about getting “more” but applying the current choices to the past Alphas so that it doesn’t give less to the early adopters (who are normally rewarded).
What exactly are “players like me”?
Do you mean: paying vets who have a sense of justice and fairness for other players? Or are you still under the delusion that anyone who suggests a non-negative treatment for Alphas has to only be an Alpha them-self?
well your logic is flawed
being an early adopter doesnt deserve a reward
youve been getting the free deal for longer so thats a reward in itself
secondly early alphas arent getting less
as i said before you can roll a new alpha and train exactly the same as any other new alpha
that means you are getting the same not less
if you add the fact youve already had months of free gameplay then you are getting more
its flawed
So this newly rolled Alpha, is there a way to transfer SKINs bought with real money through the NES and already applied to the account to the newly rolled Alpha?
Respec skills?
Not in a game that has skill injectors.
This.
I never said they deserved a reward, I said they are normally rewarded. And my point has not been that they deserve a reward, but that they don’t deserve a punishment. Having the same product as the late comers isn’t a reward, having an inferior product than the late comers, just because they were early adopters is a punishment.
not as far as i know