Alpha Update re-skill?

(Anjyl Took) #1

This is not a discussion about Alphas getting too little or too much, nor about the existence of Alphas, nor about the benefits of subscribing. This is about how the newly increased limits will effect existing Alphas.

Alphas will now be able to train any 5mil of 20mil skill points available to them, so for a new Alpha the choices are wide-open to them. But what about existing Alphas? We were told that the set of 4,5mil SP that we had was it for Alpha, so after training our Alpha for the role we wanted, it made sense to train the “unwanted” skills, because an empty training queue doesn’t do any good. Now that the choices have been expanded, a fully trained Alpha is at a disadvantage because they can only train 0,5mil more of the 20mil total SP.

  • With the update can, and should, existing Alphas get an option for a SP refund*** to be re-skilled into newly available skills?
  • If a SP re-skill is offered, how many SP, or what percentage of trained SP should it be?
  • ***These SP are can not be traded, sold, or usable in any way other then directly back into the same toon for Alpha skills.

Once again, this isn’t asking for “more” for Alphas, just “different” based on the decision making options having been changed.

Maybe this is a good idea, or maybe I’m just a “Fool of a Took”. What do you think guys?


We, the ALPHAS demand a skill deallocation!
[PROPOSAL] Lapsed Omega clones & 5M SP limit
[PROPOSAL] Lapsed Omega clones & 5M SP limit
(JC Mieyli) #2

i think you can just keep your current alpha and start training a anew one in the meantime seeing as its free
i mean asking for a reimbursement for something that cost you nothing is pretty low
well either way 5m sp isnt gonna be enough to train an alpha for their better roles anyway
the whole idea is to get people paying for the extra skills they want
i think they even mentioned granular training time with granular plex
so like maybe you pay 50 plex for 3 days training and depending on hwat you can afford you will eventually get some t2 guns or whatever

(Anjyl Took) #3

Because a year of Alpha status, faction grinding, and in-game reputation is just meaningless, and everyone should just start over when they change something? This isn’t asking for a reimbursement, just a redistribution of the points that have already been earned. (This is something CCP has done in the past when there have been major changes to skills.)

5mil is still the Alpha max, I’m not talking about changing that. So, 5mil (according to CCP) is enough to train an Alpha for an Alpha role.

This is still a speculation and not confirmed, it might happen.

And still this is like CCP saying “Thanks for coming on-board early, sticking around, and proving that Alpha is a viable game play option (some players do, but CCP does not embrace the “Alpha is an unlimited trial” idea, that’s the whole reason for the change in Alpha), but now don’t you wish you had waited until we made it better?”

A newly created Alpha can train into a pirate faction frig with T2 guns without paying any money, a one year old Alpha will not be able to, only because they came to the game first.

This isn’t about “more for Alphas” or comparing Alphas to Omegas, it’s only about comparing Alphas to Alphas.

(JC Mieyli) #4

i mean the new roles such as pirate bs
youre probably gonna want more than 5m sp anyway

okay but why would alphas get free skill redistribution
omega dont get free sp redistribution
omega has to use extractors and injectors
and that option will be available to alphas too
so you have all those options

reroll to suit the role you want
pay a sub to get the skills you want
or farm the isk and inject the sp

i think the third option would be very attractive seeing as you dont need isk for a plex anyway

(Anjyl Took) #5

If Alpha is a valid play state, which CCP says it is, and I have agreed it to be as a premise of this post, then any discussion of SP over 5mil is off-topic.

For the third time, this is not a discussion about giving anything more to Alphas nor about the benefits of Omega status.

Because they didn’t change Omega skill training, and in the past when they have, they have given SP redistribution.

(JC Mieyli) #6

well they havent changed alpha training either
theyve just enabled alphas to train more
but more isnt enough for some it seems

(Anjyl Took) #7

That is a change.

And of course, that’s where every discussion about Alpha status goes, to name calling and ad hominem attacks.

This is a discussion about balancing things between existing Alphas and new Alphas given the change in the Alpha skill set.

(JC Mieyli) #8

its a change to the alpha clone dynamic
not a change to what skills do or what they enable
you havent lost any of the capabilities you had before

it is greedy though

i know that and i think it already seems pretty balanced
you know if youre bothered about overtraining unnecessary skills you can just extract that sp and train something else

(Anjyl Took) #9

It’s like if you go into a store, and you ask them for chocolate cake, and they tell you they don’t have chocolate cake, so you take the yellow cake instead. Then they guy behind you walks in and they ask him if he wants chocolate or yellow cake, because they have both.

That is change (it’s the meaning of the word), it is not fair or balanced. Just about the only valid reply to that is “life isn’t fair”. I will agree with that, life isn’t always fair, but there is no crime in asking a game company to handle things more fairly in an update.

I’m not sure what your definition of “greedy” is, but normally it includes wanting something for yourself, not asking for something for thousands of other people. Your ad hominem attack, which is against the forum rules, only has any relevance in your assumption that I am an Alpha player. And like everything else you have said here, that is based on a lack of understanding on your part.

No, you can’t. That is part of the design of Alphas, that they cannot do what you have suggested here. you need 5.5Mil SP to extract, and Alphas are limited to train 5Mil (without premium enhancements). Once again you have just shown that you don’t even know what we are talking about.

(Agondray) #10

you cant get a pirate bs unless they are going to lower the bs lvls required, an alpha can only get bs 1. Im onboard for an alpha respect but all in all ccp probably going to say “you can pay us and go omega or start over”

(Anjyl Took) #11

I never said anything about pirate bs, or what will or will not be playable in the new Alpha skill set, only that new Alphas have 20Mil to choose from, and existing Alphas were told these are the 4,5 you get.

You might be right about CCP’s reply, thanks for the support on the idea. I just think there can be a more fair balance between old and new Alphas.

(JC Mieyli) #12

ok so youre a victim of discrimination
maybe you can go to the european court of human rights ok

what an irrational suggestion
oops was that also an ad hominem attack

i know exactly what were talking about
youre acting entitled because you refuse to get the premium enhancements
which can be paid for with in game currency
well guess what
this whole change is designed to encourage people to get the premium enhancements
so the answer is simple
spend some isk to get the skills you want
then extract the ones you dont want
if you refuse to accept that then you are just whining
sorry ad hominem attack

okay well i havent seen the details of what the changes are yet so im not sure what skills they will be getting exactly

(Wander Prian) #13

You are bickering like kids without even having a full picture of the skills you can train and other things that CCP are going to do. Wait for the devblog that they will almost surely release before the change happens.

(Anjyl Took) #14

I see you still aren’t quite clear on what those words mean. (Pointing out that an argument is flawed or that things are being misunderstood, is not a personal attack.)

I thought I said this clearly in the post that you replied to, but since you don’t appear to be getting it: I’m not an Alpha, I’m not asking for something for myself! I have multiple subscriptions. I am suggesting what would be fair for other people.

According to CCP it is to make Alpha a viable game-play option. I think I’ll go with them on the reason they have made the change. The Eve economy is incredibly complex, and each piece of it (subs, PLEXers, Alphas, SKIN buyers) has a part to play, to try and simplify it just shows a lack of understanding.

Once again CCP has said that Alpha should be a viable state of game play without needing to sub or invest in micro-transactions. This discussion is how that effects old Alphas vs new Alphas.

(Anjyl Took) #15

Thank you, that has been my point all along about what this thread is not about.

It doesn’t matter what the skills are, the only point is that a new Alpha will be able to choose 5mil SP from 20mil, and an old Alpha will have an existing 4,5mil and be able to choose 0,5mil from the remaining 15,5mil.

(JC Mieyli) #16

but identifying greed is

what you think would be fair
others might not agree

lol thats pretty patronizing
its not that complex
i think if someone simplifies it then it shows a greater understanding
but im not even sure why youre making that point

well i dont think it makes any difference
new alpha gotta train from scratch
old alpha perfectly capable of training a new alpha from scratch
or purchasing skill injectors off the market
which you seem to think is a microtransaction for some reason

(Wander Prian) #17

You don’t have enough information to even infer that. Wait for the devblog before crying something is not fair.

(Anjyl Took) #18

Wow! wasn’t that easy? (Now that was patronizing.)
So you would not vote for a respec. That’s all you needed to say, without any name calling (calling me greedy) or any of the statements about what will or will not be or why everyone should be PLEXed/Injected. Everything you have said other than that has been woefully off-topic. I just hope for anyone else reading that it has more clearly defined what the topic is.

(Anjyl Took) #19

I haven’t said the update is not fair, I have suggested an idea of what could make it fair. Maybe CCP is already including some sort of respec in the update.

The point is not to say bad things about CCP but to start a conversation in case they haven’t thought about this aspect yet.

(JC Mieyli) #20

its what i said in the first place