Alphas and economics


(Skander Parzival) #1

I see that the choice of limiting Alphas on the Economic side (some skills are omega only and ORE ships are limited to the Venture) is wise. But giving, in the future, more options for Alphas to actually matter most on the economic side of Eve woudn’t be good?

I see it as: More economy=cheaper stuff=more explosions=more expensive stuff=everyone happy.

But anyway I am just a rookie, so just wanted to share my opinion

Please don’t recide my capsuleer contract


(Agondray) #2

we have to limit them from mining and other things but not from milking isk into the system that is already drowning in it according to ccp.


(Black Pedro) #3

Unfortunately, almost 15 years of experience shows us it doesn’t work that way. The equation is more like:

More resource generation = cheaper stuff = same amount of explosions = less stuff for industrialists to do = people unsubscribing

This view is certainly debatable, but seems to be generally hold true in my estimation. People don’t like losing things and are both terrible judges of risks and costs, as well as subject to non-economic forces (i.e. social scorn over losses) that break the simple more stuff = take more idea risk that industrialists (and botters) like to use to justify why they should be catered to.

Should alphas have access to more industrial options? Maybe, but we already are suffering under increased over-production as compared to destruction (see MER) so I can see why CCP is minimizing the production side of the alphas capabilities while trying to increase their destructive capabilities.

There is also the botting concern which CCP doesn’t seem to have a handle on, which is made worse in all F2P games when there is no cost for an account. That must factor into it in some way as well.

Still, I bet the long term play for CCP is to go completely F2P and transition away from the subscription model if at all possible. So you might see such an unlocking of industrial skills at some point over the next few years.


(Skander Parzival) #4

Well, i don’t really want the game to be whole lot F2P. It’s good to sweat for my plexes and ACHIEVE it.

I see the point tho.

o7


(Anjyl Took) #5

Among the subscription players posting on the forums, I think I am one of the most pro-Alpha, but, I can’t get behind the more mining and industry for Alphas.

This is one of the main reasons. The AFK/botting problem is too* big in EvE and expanding Alpha skills on the industry side would make it worse. Not to mention the RMT connection to botting which would then have a drop in cost for the RMT goons**.

Even without the botting/RMT connection, I would still be hesitant to expand industrial skills to Alphas because what I see as the difference between “playing the game” and “working the game”. Obviously all the players are playing an enjoying what they do in the game, but there is a difference between flying and fighting in space and building/screwing with a virtual economy.

I think the Alpha/Omega division is something along the lines of “Welcome, Alpha, to EvE, come play our game, have fun and take good/bad/whatever memories with you when you go.” I.E. you can visit for free, but if you want to live here, then you have to pay rent.

*any botting is “too” much
** this is a generic term with a lower case “g” meaning people who break laws/rules/ethics, no implied connection between Goonswarm ™ / CFC and RMT


(Agondray) #6

Limit omegas to 1 account to like that had said in a dev blog a year ago which disappeared 3 months later, itll halt the 1 man fleets as far as 1 computer goes


(78 Alpha) #7

It gives rise to an extreme part of economics. Alphas could mine all the resources in high sec if they banded together, and with all the low system gate camps the more pricy ore would never make it to high sec, and the Alphas could go on strike and not make anything for anyone. Basically splitting Eve in two or shutting down the economy.

This is kind of what I do, I make things for myself and rarely sell anything on the market. I give away a lot of stuff, like an astero (before Alphas could fly it) or a few million mexallon. I had the idea of mining millions of mexallon and selling it for half price. From what the Eve market analysts say, that would collapse the high sec market (since plagioclase would drop in price and it is the most valuable resource there).

Or, hyper inflation. More people wanting plex so people raise the price a lot until it is not worth buying…

Marketing, there is a reason why you need a college degree to get a marketing job, it has hidden complexity


(Teckos Pech) #8

The first paragraph is debatable, but the data does, at first glance, support @Black_Pedro. Below is the Graph of production, destruction and mined.

You can see that there is considerable correlation between mined and production, looks like maybe on a lagged basis.

But destruction has shifted upward only marginally given the much larger shifts in mined and production. In fact, in looking at the raw data and doing a quick and dirty regression analysis, the first part of your chain of reasoning has some validity. That is the more stuff is mined, the more stuff is produced. But, a similar regression of destroyed on produced has a much, much worse fit. Pretty much no fit at all. Yes, the variable produced is statistically significant, but the coefficient is small, 0.102. That means for each ISK produced only leads to 0.102 more ISK being destroyed. The overall fit is bad…very bad. The Adjusted R-square is 0.007. Compared to the 0.40 for Produced as a functionof mined, mined lagged, and mined 2 lags.

To me this would suggest that CCP should look to fostering an environment with more destruction. This isn’t very easy though as you can’t make players do something they don’t want to do…they’ll likely just end up quitting. Giving them easier access to industry and what not on the other hand is much easier because lots of players like acquiring resources.

So…sorry, but no. Right now I do not think that giving Alphas greater access to the productive side of the economy is warranted.

Oh and the social scorn over losses, yeah, that is probably some toxic ■■■■■■■■ foisted on us by some of the more assholish members of the community. There are some pretty damn good sound clouds out there of some of these guys practically shitting themselves over somebody else losing a ship. It is both hilarious and pathetic. We’d probably be better off if that ■■■■ was actually looked at as other ugly forms of social behavior.


(Skander Parzival) #9

I need a degree to play this game


(Linus Gorp) #10

That used to be true a few years ago… Things have only gone downhill since then…


(system) #11

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