An Open Letter to CCP from Current and Former CSM Members on the "Prospector Pack"

Those threads went about the same as this one: filled with Dunning Kruger Don Quixote uninformed nonos, raging at the machine they say to understand so well, but really don’t. Unable to have a meaningful, civilised and fact based conversation while being, at best, “unfriendly” to the people putting in effort to reach out. And then be picachu surprised when the ones they focus their blind and factless rage on stop bothering.

Not saying that I know all or even much but then I’m also not raging at the messengers.

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Did you read what I said, or are just going to keep raging over what you decided I said? Plus you started this with the “I was in the room” malarkey, not me.

And I doubt you’re laughing out loud. There’s far too much anger in your words.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

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Who’s starting an argument? It’s known that you don’t play the game. Is it so insulting to you that I happened to mention your name as an EVE player who doesn’t play EVE?
If you don’t like being referred to as a non-playing player than get off these forum instead of being in denial about your non-participation to the game.
It’s no insult to say an EVE player doesn’t play EVE if indeed he doesn’t. Sorry that you can’t handle the truth.

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Epeen “plays” the game, he just doesn’t do anything interesting in it.

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No, temp. It’s you that doesn’t play the game. Don’t start nothing, won’t be nothing.

Up to you.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

Yes, now I understand that you’re going to keep up this insolence until I either ignore you or the end of the world comes. Forum worriors like you always want to have the last word like playground bullies.
Well, here, have the last word. You’re not interesting enough to keep replying to on something you have a problem with, non-EVE-player player.

I think all you who don’t play the game yet still comment on this website are pathetic. Coming to a game forum while not having played for a year or more is straight out creepy.

Says the temp not playing the game and posting on the forum.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

Have you actually watched any of those videos?

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at this point, I think people who make the actual decisions don’t even know this letter exists, it seems to me Rattati, and, ESPECIALLY, Hilmar, live in their own little world having managed to successfully insulate themselves from “the real world”, thus, they think everything they do is fine and has the full support of the community.
What I don’t understand is why no one tells them the truth. Are the people who work for CCP and know what’s really going on afraid to say anything because they might get kicked out of the company for daring to have another opinion?

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Ah, yes, the ole’ “because they didn’t tell you about this thing, they never tell you about anything argument.,”

This is one of the frustrations of being on the CSM. Guys like you have instant responses to everything.

  • We tell them about something we want —> They do it —> We take credit

“They were going to do that anyway.”

  • They tell us about something they want to do , it’s bad —> We tell them it’s bad —> They don’t do it

crickets

…because this is covered by the NDA so you never hear about it, which is the entire purpose of the NDA - they can suggest dumb things, we try to stop them, we are successful and they didn’t screw up, and the whole world never hears about how they tried to do a dumb thing, which is what they want.

  • They tell us about something they want to do, it’s bad —> We tell them it’s bad —> They do it anyway

“You guys are useless, you can’t stop anything.”

  • They don’t tell us about something they want to do —> They do it —> It blows up in their faces—>“DID THE CSM KNOW ABOUT THIS?!” —> “No”

“You guys are useless, they don’t even tell you anything.”

See how this might possibly get old after the 2134902309482309482034234th time you’ve seen it go one of these ways?

I remember. I also remember how much work it was, how it detracted from my ability to participate and was making me loath meetings. I feel I’ve been more effective since I stopped doing it. You didn’t really give us any credit when I was doing it anyway, so I don’t feel like I lost anything. And if players have specific questions, I’m always available to answer them.

Yeah, I read what you said. “CSM is just a PR tool” and then you said you knew that because you saw a 5 minute video of CSMs in a board room. I’m still chuckling about that.

They are very aware that the letter exists.

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So they know the letter exist, they know the community, the people that PAY THEM are pissed but they haven’t said ANYTHING, let alone removed the pack from the store. I know you probably know a lot more than you are able to tell us because of the NDA, but it is still extremely frustrating.
And it’s not just about the pack, it’s also about what Merk said on the Meta Show, nothing the release works right anymore. Just today the patch they released broke Gas Huffing. It’s just… I don’t know what to say anymore. I can’t even put into words how dissapointed?! Hurt?! I don’t even know what anymore.

If the NDA were waived, let’s just say hypothetically in theory, would you say that Hilmar loves me, or like just like likes me like a like lot?

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I’d like to speak as a new player to the game - insofar as I joined just prior to COVID-19’s first wave, unsubscribed after 8 months due to not feeling ready for its complexity or feeling overwhelmed by the somewhat cut-throat nature of Capsuleer life, before rejoining just 2 months ago. The skill ceiling feels far closer than it did before, whilst looking at the game with a fresh set of eyes and surrounded by a very supportive and active Corporation / Alliance.

With that said, I do not speak for them - nor do I entirely agree with all of the sentiments expressed in this post. But I do agree with the spirit of it.

As a new player, I have not wanted to be a burden to others. The fast-paced nature of Alliance Fleets, and the near-ritualistic schedules and of experienced Industrialists (whose primary language appears to be derived from a PhD in Economics, though not in a bad way!) make asking for assistance and hand-outs an intimidating prospect. Particularly when you (me) are often looking at individuals who have endured a thousand trials by fire over the course of nearly two decades - and you want to be like them. Independent, mentally agile and able to learn from your own mistakes.

… But as the veteran players continue to grow - along with their fortunes, armadas and capabilities - the game in turn must scale up. And as a new player grows, they do so at a far slower rate than those who have a better understanding of what works and doesn’t, and those who possess the means to accomodate their next ambition.

I’m so sorry for the long-winded context, but it felt important to outline why I feel the way that I do.

I can’t go back 19 years and fall in love with EVE Online’s original release, but I can buy some of that time in the form of Skill Points, Ready-to-Fly Mining Barges, the appropriate Skills, and some Plex (ISK :moneybag:) to float my early attempts at Exploration.

I cannot be the only new player who feels this way - grateful, for the opportunity to ‘buy back’ some of the months / years worth of training that I wish I’d spent on the game, and getting myself into a good position where I can at the very least manage a stable income to support my own involvement with the activites of the broader community without being a burden to my friends.

With all of that said.

I support the spirit of this letter insofar as - to echo the sentiments frequently heard in Imperium News - I agree that there shouldn’t be a monetization cascade that leads us into the territory of NFTs. A line must be drawn somewhere. I just don’t agree that Packs are that line. Everything that @Regina_Rockbound said in particular speaks to me, but I also understand that the CSM team represent - and were elected by - a vast number of players and speak on their behalf. And I respect your experience when it comes to how these changes will affect the game for you.

Signed!! - But please, don’t forget the ‘little people’ as well, whose personal choice it inherently is to invest into getting a leg up. :pleading_face: :pray:

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I understand and I feel the same way. Like I said, I don’t think we’re going to get them to walk this back, so I’m trying to move forward to see if we can at least contain this damage and not let it spread. Even this is a stretch, but we’ll see. As for them making a formal statement, I think they recognize, correctly, that if they don’t make a statement that includes something the community will want or appreciate, it’s going to just make things worse.

Imagine if they came out with a long dev blog explaining why they did the pack, how great it was, and how they were going to do more of them in the future? That would pour gasoline on the fire. The Partner Program thing is already doing that, anyway. In the end, there don’t have a lot of good options, so I am hoping the CSM can push for something that looks like the least bad option, given they seem bound and determined to stay the course here.

We all love you, how could he not?

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We re-elected you both, didn’t we?

Was I even on your ballot?

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That’s not fair.

They didn’t reset it to 0.

They went further, they set it to -1.

This is a disgusting choice, surely made by weighing “what’s the risk to existing players,” finding it and then doing it anyway, because it wasn’t risky enough.

'cause we’re numbers on the ledger. This is a profane decision.

I understand and I feel the same way. Like I said, I don’t think we’re going to get them to walk this back, so I’m trying to move forward to see if we can at least contain this damage and not let it spread. Even this is a stretch, but we’ll see. As for them making a formal statement, I think they recognize, correctly, that if they don’t make a statement that includes something the community will want or appreciate, it’s going to just make things worse.

Question is why? Why do they refuse to listen to what the community is telling them? Why are they actively working against their own community, again, the people that pay their salaries. It’s suicide! It doesn’t make any sense, why are they refusing to see that?

Two elections ago I think I put some odd role player at the top of my list, but last year she didn’t run. So yeah, i voted for you. I don’t watch streamers and the arrogant Vily-type nullsec royalty are anathema.

I can’t believe you would subject yourself to any of this forum banter if you thought it was said in seriousness. Even if it were, we are all just grown men arguing about a spaceship video game because we aren’t quite dumb enough to care about basketball.

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