If the number of players on the server is not higher by this time next year

If the number of players are not higher on the server by this time next year then the CSM has failed and the concept should be abolished because the entire purpose behind it was to have them advise the devs in order to keep players from leaving


I know that you reading this have the excuses ready to roll. Its an old game. Subscription based models are unpopular (players are greedy), and so on

But there are old games that are still growing in popularity. Gamers spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on cosmetics, they are not greedy.

If a game receives proper attention and care people will come back to play it every now and then and new players will continue to come. In other words it will grow.

There is ~2B people more in the world today than when EVE Online was released and the gaming industry has also grown significantly in revenue since then.
But CCP and EVE Online has shrunk in the last 15 years in particular. Why is that? Is it because people post mean things on the forum?

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No, because EvE attracts a certain demography of players with a certain mindset, only. This demography in societies was already small from the beginning, but got smaller in recent years. The mindset I mean can best be described as being affin to all-out competition with minimal handholding and rules.



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I had to think for a couple minutes to realize you are wrong.

  1. Eve online has pursued the path of Hand holding for a while, so according to your argument more people should be playing it. But they are not
  2. A game like rust where you spawn naked and can be killed by any other players remains one of the most popular games on steam
  3. Minecraft? You start with nothing and can die willy nilly. Dying = dropping inventory, and if you die in lava it gets deleted.

Should i go on? Those games are extremely popular. Last but not least what about CS:GO and the other FPSes? They are highly competitive and have millions of players each day

It makes me upset because how can you reach a conclusion like you have with so much evidence that points to the opposite?


Personal experience with the people growing up around me, and what I can see in my country.

EDIT: see your comment. Those you mention have a different concept of loss, either none / wipe anyway, or the PvP is optional.


They are not as different as you think

For example CS:GO you need currency to buy weapons and equipment and you dont get a refund if you die

Make sure you’re on the ballot then. Maybe you can make significant contributions as a game designer and marketing strategist. Oh, hold on.

Nah, that’s not how it started. The CSM and the Internal Security department were the result of a serious incident.

Wesfahrn, is that you again ?


I expected someone to say something along the lines of im im not on the ballot then its my fault. But there has been 18 CSM? And not one of them have succeded? I dont think me running is going to make a difference :slight_smile:

I dont think its a problem of not having the right people in the CSM, but maybe im wrong. Maybe something can fail 18 times in arow and its just unlucky


CSM has no authority, let me rephrase, the devs do not have to implement or whatever everything the csm asks.

Not all the devs tolerate the CSM.


Define success and tell us how you measured the performance of each of those 18 CSM teams.

Just asking for details about how you formed your opinion. And no, equating the PCU with CSM performance is not only laughable, it’s proof you don’t understand what the CSM can and cannot do.

That is not to say that the Fog of War that the CSM has to operate under, usually the thick fog of a very extensive NDA, helps the communication between the CSM and its supporters (us players and voters). Almost everything falls under NDA, even if it’s not about technology or IP - that is the one thing I have against the current situation. Voting a CSM in place is very much a fire and forget, and hope they strike the targets. If they did, they can communicate to us about it 5 years later… if even then.

I have nothing but respect and gratitude for the people who put themselves out there, on the CSM, some of whom do this with a tenacity like it was a second daytime job. I don’t even understand how they cope with the inevitable frustration, by not getting through at times, and from the barrage of criticism from players. And I also have respect and gratitude for CCP, who actively organizes the CSM as part of their direct relationship with us players and customers. There would not be a CSM without CCP willing it into existence. It’s one other thing that makes this game, this community and the developing company unique.

I’m confident EvE Online would have been a very different beast today if we hadn’t had a CSM !


The CSM is just a PR outreach/marketing initiative. The CSM has no actual input on CCP’s design decisions with regard to EVE, or CCP’s actions as a for-profit company.

The only way to increase the player count (if it’s not too late at this point) is to remove non-consensual PvP (grief-play) from the game. Other games, including older ones as mentioned in the OP, are growing and doing well exactly because they don’t possess this element:






This isn’t what the contemporary gamer wants. The vast majority of multiplayer game/MMO players today desires to be able to log into a game after a hard day of work, and spend a few hours making some money so that they can upgrade their gear, and not be harassed by some kid with anger issues because they get picked on in school for refusing to conform to normative social behavior.


It really isn’t rocket science why EVE isn’t doing well.


No it doesn’t.

If it doesn’t, wouldn’t that make it an advertizing issue ?

I agree with you, in part, seeing a large influx of tentative players with 1) the wrong expectations about this (type of) game, and 2) with no idea about what to expect from an open-world pvp, single shard sandbox i.e., where one competes with every other player in all possible activities.

It’s not advertised as such though is it?



EVE Online is the largest single shard space MMO of all time. With over 7,000 solar systems and nearly 20 years of rich player-created history, join this storied universe and play free to experience everything from immense PvP or PvE battles to mining, exploration, and industry.

Seize your destiny as an immortal, a Capsuleer capable of piloting over 350 fully customizable starships from small, nimble Frigates to formidable Battleships and massive Freighters. Embark on a solo adventure through the twisting nexus of wormhole space, form a mighty industrial empire to transform athe building blocks of the universe, or take up arms with likeminded players to conquer vast frontiers together. Who will you be in New Eden?

Experience this vast spaceship MMO for free as an Alpha Clone with access to Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, Battlecruisers, and Battleships of any faction. Enterprising Capsuleers may also choose to upgrade to Omega Clone for unlimited Ship access and double training speed."

Not one line in there mentions that it’s a purely pvp game, in fact pvp takes a back seat to pve in the advertising.

Pursue a life of exploration, warfare, prosperity, or all of the above! Pilot over 350 different vessels and customize it to your liking with thousands of unique modules. Modify your ship as a fast and nimble fighter or design it from the ground up as a heavily shielded brawler to go toe to toe with others. Feeling lucky? Take a chance and modify your equipment further using alien technology found deep in Abyssal Deadspace."

As a single sharded MMO, all players of EVE Online play on the same server across all timezones. Jump in and join thousands of players in the greatest space sandbox there is. Every decision you make, battle you win, and system you claim becomes a part of the long, rich history of New Eden. Where will you leave your mark?"

Does that point to EVE being a pure pvp game? I’d argue that it doesn’t. In fact trying to find a paragraph that states it’s such is nigh on impossible to find in official releases. Forget reddit etc, I’m talking the EVE online website, Steam etc.

These are the things prospective new players read before trying the game, the reality though is far from the advertising blurb as we all know. Is it false advertising? Do they deliberately raise the expectations of new players knowing full well the realities?

As for the CSM it’s just a publicity stunt with no real outcomes, but it’s CCP’s money to spend and waste. I stopped voting years ago.


That proves the point I made. “EvE is Hard” was at least partially true.

Hiding the fact that one competes with all other players or player groups doesn’t help retention at all, and creates poor publicity through reviews on sites like Steam, from people who got suckered in with false expectations. Better to be upfront about it.

You missed the golden ammo threads ? CSM was very quick in its response and very successful ! And that is only the most recent example.


Of course it is. Most trolls don’t last this long on the forums, but this guy clearly has some free time on his hands. If nothing else I admire his commitment and constant RuneScape updates.


In before the inevitable lock.
@Dreg_Apc Thanks for the laughs.

I will go on a limb and say it’s definitely because people post mean things on the forum. It’s awful.

I wonder how many of these reviews are legit and how many of them are created by gank-haters with an agenda. Because most of those that you highlighted are not realistic unless they are heavily over-exaggerated. Or maybe these players were “ganked” in low security - that would make sense how can someone lose 2 Orcas a day to “ganking”.

But what amazes me the most is that none of these reviewers mentioned anything about the game being unfun because its activities requires no player input (mostly). See they all enjoy afk mining, which is not actually playing the game, like wtf? If the review stated, mining sucks it is boring and nothing happens, then that would make sense to me. But they instead complain hat they got ganked when their ship was doing something on autopilot and they weren’t even present at keyboard thus weren’t playing the game at all…

I never thought about that. And he is right. So there is actually one good thing about this game!


It must be, I was trying to recruit some new players and advertised my corporation as newbie friendly with PvP focused activities in highsec in EU timezone and english as primary language.

In a month, nothing, nobody even sent me email to ask me for details.

So the conclusion is:

  • other corporation are more successful with their advertisement and new players choose to go to them, but if I look into corporation search, majority of the advertised corps is either advertising fake details or the search engine is flawed because you check high-sec and it shows lowsec and nullsec PvP corps
  • my advertisement was poorly worded and not appealing to new players
  • new players don’t know about the corporation search engine or how to use it (the former is not that likely now when joining corporation is one of the AIR challenges and it is shown there how to find and join one, on the other hand, in my experiences many if not most new players doesn’t do even career missions, yet AIR challenges)
  • new players don’t want to PvP in highsec but in low/null (which is unlikely in my opinion)
  • new players in EVE are not interested in PvP at all
  • there are no new players in EVE, just alts of bittervets
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