Anti cloaking pulse blueprint

(Brother Ergo) #1

Where is this taking us in wormhole space ? An exciting development or another module not wanted by wormhole pilots ??

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(Steve Ronuken) #2

It’s not new. Been sitting in the SDE for years now.

(Lord Kalus) #3

It’s probably best that it stays there collecting dust. It would break many styles of gameplay for the sake of making life easy for lazy nullbears.

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(PJHustle) #4

This is always an interesting topic, I dislike the idea someone can effect another’s play whilst not being at the keyboard and risking nothing during that time. But you need to allow for active hunters to stalk their pray.

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(Lord Kalus) #5

The reverse is also true. If you put in a way to decloak people using the wrong mechanics, say from safely within a station or through use of a citadel module, then you are disrupting the cloaked person’s play (who may not be afk at all) while risking nothing as well.

Anything that can completely rule out use of such an important and widely used ability as cloaking should also be rare and expensive, otherwise cloaking becomes entirely obsolete. Perhaps expensive single-use probes that are consumed regardless of whether they affect anything and would also require someone else using combat probes at the same time to catch the person before they recloak?

(ISD Sakimura) #6

So, at some point there were some game-design going on for this type of thing but was scrapped before it was finished. Building on the “Pulse” part of this, what would your thoughts be on the idea of a

Command Burst-like module (with anti-cloak script, or maybe even use Liquid Ozone as fuel)

  • Can only be fitted to those Ships that can normally fit a Command Burst module.
  • Only one (1) module can be fitted, also takes up a Command Burst slot.
  • Range limited to around 30km; increased with skill to about 60km-ish.
  • Pulse decloaks any cloaked ship withing range and prevents cloaking for 20sec (debuff applies to all ships hit - friend or foe).
  • Pulse has no effect on gate-cloaks!
  • Banned from high security space. or will be considered a criminal action and provoke Concord response.
  • Reactivation delay 1 hour. (does not auto-cycle like command burst normally do).

It’s not a terrible idea; it still very much allow cloaky-hunters to stalk their prey. The only problem I see in this is it’s exploitation on gate camps, which will happen no doubt about that.

@Steve_Ronuken perhaps something CSM can discuss and if you think it’s appropriate, loosely mention it to CCP?

(Palydin) #7

This would hugely alter the meta in wh space and not in a good way. Please put this idea back on the shelf and leave it there.

(PJHustle) #8

My next part of the post is exactly this, there needs to be a way for active hunters to hunt

Your quote took everything except for that last sentence that reinforced your comment. I agree but strange way to make a quote, I suppose just stretching out the phrase a little more is better than a single sentence about the opinion.

(PJHustle) #9

What about it tied to an ihub so it only relates to sov warfare and pulses a request for the cloak ship to respond to to ensure they are not afk. Yes granted this is a terrible way to get across what I assume the concept of this item is but would that effect WH in a terrible way?

(Anderson Geten) #10

That’s bad. instead make it burnt on use and need repair paste + depot or citadel dock to reuse it. (like the PANIC)

Also its use would only be in gatecamp. Dunno if that’s what you want. But nobody else would use this.

If you want to make it able to catch an AFK cloaked ship, you need to make it work on AU radius. eg 4AU+ bonus based on skills (6 AU for T2) . In order to prevent someone who is temporarily AFK and from being used at gatecamp, this should be delayed by eg 1min : you warp to your safespots, use your pulse, and 1 min later everything in the surrounding X AU takes a 1min anticloak effect. The effect turns any cloak module (and only that) and prevents them from being turned on again (again, with one minute delay).

Now the question : what’s its effect in wormholes ? What if people use it just before entering a gate (should it persist through system change?) ?

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(Palydin) #11

Let me explain some of the effects on wh space this module would have.

First of all, even restricted to ships that can fit burst modules, this can be fitted to command destroyers, battlecruisers, and support T3Cs. All of which are common ships currently but would be mandatory, a rigid meta, if this module were introduced. The ability to decloak opponents at will either defensively, like to protect against an ambush, or offensively, like to catch a scout on a hole, would provide such a huge advantage that it would drive the whole meta.

Even the 1 hour delay on reactivation is not much of a limitation. Many fights occur over a half hour to 45 minutes from form up to battle and resolution. In that time even a fleet of 10 ships will be able to activate the decloak module less than every 5 minutes. This means that use of ships which rely on stealth tactics will be severely constrained (like bombers).

There are already many counters to cloaky camping in Nullsec, don’t try to implement an ineffective solution to that issue which messes with the gameplay of everyone who lives in wormholes.

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(Anderson Geten) #12

To me it looks like it’s the goal. Those 10 ships won’t be able to cloak themselves, and as such could be probed and shot. Having to fight for you ability to disrupt ennemies is imo a good thing.

(Palydin) #13

Those 10 ships are not cloaky except for possibly the T3Cs. And that fleet is effectively immune to ambush by: bombers (oh god bombers are dead with this module), T3Cs/Stratios, cloaky recons, and other covops providing a cloaky warp in for another fleet. In other words, this module supplants a huge amount of the surprise tactics that make pvp in wh space dynamic and replaces it with a single standard fleet composition. Way to go!

(Anderson Geten) #14

hmm defender missiles already allow to defend against bombs.

if they use the pulse anti cloaking, then they can’t cloak anyhow

(Palydin) #15

Wow you really don’t get it.

First, defender missiles on command destroyers have nothing on the capabilities of this module. If a command destroyer instead fits a decloaking pulse they can pick the moment to decloak the bombers and whether the bomber fleet was planning to use bombs or torps their ships will be quickly destroyed.

Second, this fleet will consist of battlecruisers for dps, T3C logi, and command dessie support. Only the T3Cs can possibly fit a covops cloak but probably won’t. This is not cloaky fleet. But they are pretty close to immune to any surprise attack. Which is, you know, a major attraction to jspace gameplay.

(Anderson Geten) #16

Except when you say it nullifies the ability to bomb targets.

that’s a very hard IF. As I said there is a 1min delay, so this is totally enough to abort the bombing or proceed .

(Cypr3ss Deteis) #17

Just simply a terrible idea. I’d suggest there’s a great many reasons why dev of this came to a halt.

When was the last time you saw a fleet of anything that used defender missiles? In addition to this, bomber wings I’ve flown in don’t generally stick around to fire torpedoes, they decloak, drop bombs and gtfo.

Edit: Ok so just read up on the ‘new’ defender missiles… lol, it would appear they’re even more useless than before, but now do affect bombs, not missiles.

I think you’re underestimating the capabilities of some (most?) larger WH entities. I think the fleet would consist of Command ships for DPS, T3C logi and Command dessies for booshing (if/when required), Battlecruisers would be for ‘new peeps’. I think you are correct re that would become the default WH Fleet comp.

It really is not a good idea.

@Steve_Ronuken please don’t mention this to anyone… in fact if you could use CSM Magiks to delete this thread that would probably be for the best :slight_smile:


(Anderson Geten) #18

Actually they became useful as even a newby can help in a destro with defenders.

(Palydin) #19

Re: battlecruisers, I just meant broadly as the class of ships between cruisers and battleships in size as they can all fit bursts. Totally agree, we would see sleips for shield fleets, dreks for armor, and newbros in various T1s. Be like living in Nullsec with gate mass limits. Eww

(Marcus Gideon) #20

I suggested this same thing ages ago, when I first discovered there was a Pulse buried in the DB that had never been used.

Dessies seem like the perfect ship to use for them too. Fly around sending off the pulse, hoping to reveal someone if they’re lurking nearby.

The downside (for all the Null Sec care bears who are afraid of the boogeyman in Local) is that it won’t help if they aren’t even on the same grid. If they found a nice little Deep Safe and went AFK to watch a movie, you’ll never know where they are.

It’s almost… like Lawless space is dangerous. And maybe they should be careful when they undock, instead of relying on Local to tell them when a threat is near.

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