Seriously, though. Apparently I’m the only one always looking at things from along term cultural and societal perspective. No idea if that’s a word, but as usual it’s now.
The current “meta” is shifting towards growing people into fleets, capable of defending themselves. The future “meta” is that people will be used to getting attacked by NPCs, will will normalize the idea that everyone can be attacked anytime, anywhere in highsec. Of course there will always be those with serious ego issues, who take offense in the fact that a player killed them, but they’ll grow into an even smaller (and possibly louder, as SJW like roddyboy usually do) group. The rest adapts or leaves. Who cares, we’re still here.
So, to support this, you go b0vril. You grow a harassing mining corp, which roams around looking for belts where others mine and mine their rocks specifically, in full yield ships with proper set up and a high degree of safety. You rub it under he other miners noses that they sit in tanked ships like cowards (elitist miner narrative!) and that they can’t do ■■■■ against you. Your mining corp needs a bumper, a ganker and proper miners. The one thing miners hate more than getting ganked is when you’re unfair and mine their roids away.
The rest falls into place all by itself. Mining, yes, really, offers a huge amount of possibilities, and just like back then we can apply the same procedure like when growing the New Order. You market it for bullies who can not be touched by game mechanics, who can freely poke others without being in danger of mechanics interfering. No one here really knows how to grow a group, but it’s damn easy, actually, assuming you really want this.
It’s really a no brainer. All it needs is ONE mining corp with teeth biting enough miners to make them scream and the rest magically drops into place. I really wished i had the time for this, my orca/mining/bumping/ganking/ecm chars would love to take a few spins again. Someone needs to make this happen, but give credita this time at least.
Funnily enough Ive been working on an idea like this.
Theres not much to report yet but if it ever takes off Id like an alliance or group called “Parasol Stars” in your honour.
Anyway this is off current topic so maybe we should have a thread for it.
Instead of trying to nip this bud before it grows, participate in figuring out how AG could overcome difficult odds to achieve that, and provide emergent content in EVE.
I endorse this.
Go bump the hell out of ice miners in HS.
Its stupidly easy, at no risk, and annoys the hell out of bot players especially.
The fields spawn like clockwork, and bots exploit the hell out of it.
No point in that, really. It will achieve and change nothing, unless you will be the one who actually starts an AG group.
My approach is far more effective, especially in the long term. Sorry for hijacking your thread (well, i don’t really do that, actually) but there is no actual point in this, unless someone actually takes the ideas, a few competent and willing soldiers and executes them. White Knights don’t achieve anything, and that’s what AG are. Or, even if not anymore, that’s what they are branded as, and that brand is done. Just like CODE, in the long run at least.
I’ve written what was to say about this, further above. I’ve covered literally everything with a chance of success. No matter how many words, though, unless you find more Marlands, nothing will be done.
No offense, Salvos. You’re not wrong with this thread, but you’re betting on an old, crippled horse.
Again, this is your problem. You have a very small collection of white-knights trying to go toe-to-toe with a highly organized, well-funded group or few groups several times their size. Just like everywhere, they are going to lose because:
N(antigas) << N(gankers + alts)
There is plenty they, or any single player, can do to prevent ganks, and they definitely can harass gankers to make it harder/more costly for them forcing them to bring more, but 5 antigas with low SP, incomplete understanding of game mechanics, and limited coordination are not going to stop 25 professional gankers once a fight starts on-grid. Even 5 veteran well-funded gankers working together would fail in that situation saving a freighter from a Miniluv fleet that they really wanted to explode, although I would give them better odds of using their deeper understanding of the mechanics (and willingness to lose ships) to clear the bump-tackle. But once the gank started, forget it - the imbalance in player numbers and ship cost on the field is just too great.
In addition to just being outnumbered and outgunned and often outplayed, the other major reason why antiga fails non-stop, everyday, is that they way they want to stop ganks is largely reactionary. If they do bring enough people on-grid with the freighter to prevent a gank, the gankers usually won’t even try and just stay docked or select another target where they are not. They can “win” and save a freighter by increasing the cost of the gank higher than the gankers are willing or able to spend, but that is largely invisible and often it is just another freighter that then explodes.
I see no way to fix this without completely revising highsec criminal mechanics to support some sort of escalation between the sides rather than the ambush-style fish-in-a-barrel attacks CONCORD forces now. But I also don’t see why a handful of self-styled and delusional heroes should be able to lock-down a system to criminals 5 or 10-fold their number.
If the goal is to destroy the gank fleet through concord, while denying them loot,
then this is viable, at least in principle, IF it is a means to ‘hurt’ your opponent etc
But will be highly dependent on spais etc and will be ‘more difficult’, less effective, and probably more frustrating for your people, than just using SG mechanics
For a start you will
a) always be defending a target- never on the offensive
b) always facing a complete gank fleet
c) always have less intel than your opponents (unless excellent spai network, then why not disrupt before fleets form etc through SG?)
d) not be able to benefit from the intel you do have as effectively as your opponents, as you will be ‘tied’ to the freighter and its vicinity- so they will likely have a better idea of your numbers and comp, whereas they can form and reform quickly- OR JUST PICK ANOTHER TARGET you aren’t protecting-
In this last case you do ‘protect a freighter’ but only at the cost of losing another freighter
However, if the goal is to protect a specific freighter, then…
Educate them or let them die because
a) If they were willing to incur costs they would do so (eg. red frog, carry less, alt farm second account for webber spai
b) If they are not willing to incur these costs why should you incur them for them? See above, if you funded yourself by charging, how could you compete with red frog (cheap) unless your freighters adopted similar tactics to red frog. And if someone feels red frog is too expensive, collateral is too high, how can you do it cheaper?
More like they jump and then blame the ground for being hard when they hit it. They’re quite happily freefalling all the way down and completely oblivious until the moment of impact, and then it is absolutely not their fault that they died.
If you treat it like a normal eve war and make it not about protecting freighters, but perhaps educate freighter pilots and miners as you go, perhaps allowing their corps into your alliance if they have ‘teeth’ (eg. are willing to bump and SG and not gimp themselves by denying use of all available mechanics)
and go after CODE specifically
and can build infrastructure and attract pilots
through EFFECTIVE propaganda which cannot be SG is bad mkay, it will need AT LEAST
as much smug as James315
Then you will be as effective as any other entity in New Eden, relative to how well you manage all of the above.
One thing you could do, once you had theory crafted and practiced protecting a single freighter using ecm etc
Is advertise you are taking a 20bil untanked load through the pipe
Challenge CODE
Actually win, and stream it, then this
Propaganda victory would get you a far way towards building a narrative that could inspire, but it would not be about ‘protecting the freighter’;
And you had better be very very sure you can pull it off… and if you are too sure and they find out (spais)
they just ignore it and gank 5bil load on AP on different pipe.
I think I have started repeating myself so I am off for now
@Salvos_Rhoska and other posters for giving me a different angle to look at this from , with little in the way of semantic debate and lots of discussion
This is where the ‘Instant Wardec’ comes in. On return fire or aggressive module activation (by ag, in advance of CONCORD arrival), Both (in-corp) sides compulsorily pay a fee, no 24-hour waiting period, duration set, no corp-hopping, and no bloody CONCORD (or FacPo…). Just. All. Out. War.
The freighter’s probably a gonner though.
Also, detailed game mechanics have been proven to be one of my weak points…
Cant we discuss AG options/mechanics without there being an existing umbrella AG org?
Does AG have to be a vast alliance before its methods/mechanics can be discussed?
AG exists already, albeit in a dispersed/de-centralized state.
Alpha changes are impending which may possibly, conceivably, improve AGs potential.
EVE has yet to produce the AG Messiah, to bring all the tribes under one, but until that happens, why not discuss what does exist currently relating to AG?
OR
Are you saying that AG has no chance of significant success, ever, and we should all just not even bother discussing it? If so, why is there no such chance?
This should not be necessary, nor are CODE the only suicide gankers in HS.
My hypothesis, for the nth time, is that it is not AGs job to wreck gankers.
That is CONCORDs job, and they do it with absolute efficiency regardless of how many gankers there are, or how much their fits cost.
AG should focus, instead, on keeping gank targets alive as long as possible, till CONCORD arrives and wrecks ALL the gankers,
This should, theoretically, be a far more efficient model, than trying to destroy endless ganker catalyst alts at a tit-for-tat model.
That is what I personally (though this thread is wider) am currently trying to ascertain/explore.
CONCORD is AGs best friend, and bigger brother.
Despite memes, it is infact always CONCORD that wins.
AG just needs to find a way to help them so CONCORD wins before the gank target is exploded.
