And yet EVE still exists when many of those ‘balanced’ pvp games have declined to irrelevance or closed altogether.
And CCP has been attempting to ‘find a winning formula’ forever, and have succeeded in doing nothing but making EVE a bit less popular.
The things you are complaining about here are what made EVE great, and what has allowed it to survive. You say that maybe some PVE players don’t like having to ‘run from other players’, but that’s the part that gives PVE value for those of us who are suited to that kind of action.
Same thing for the asymmetrical nature of PVP. EVE pvp players exist because of it, because if they wanted ‘fair fights’ or ‘even odds’ they wouldn’t be playing EVE.
I read that long post of yours and all that really comes to mind is that you (like, honestly, a lot of people) just aren’t of a mindset that would let you enjoy what EVE is. And for those of us who are of a mindset that is compatible with EVE (of which there are many, not just PVP), the fact that it isn’t for everyone is a big selling point.
You try to differentiate between PvP and PvE. Just don’t. There isn’t one without the other in Eve. No matter what you do, you are always competing with other people on different levels (shooting each other directly and avoiding to get shot are just two very obvious ones). On the other hand, you can’t do PvP without any PvE activities (at least someone had to do them for you or there wouldn’t be any ships or modules to PvP with).
Yes, content in Eve can be hard to find, especially if you are alone. Don’t be alone, create your content yourself, it’s much easier. I was about to quit the game after three months because consuming high-sec content was already getting pretty boring. I didn’t and moved to WH-space with some friends instead and got shot within 30 minutes in my mining prophecy. The game got much better from that point on and some part of it has to do with doing more “purposeful things” (creating content for myself and my corp and for a common goal) and another part with the following:
Those are the things that give all your achievements real value. Succeeding against the odds and despite “everyone else” being “better at the game”.
By greifing and cyberbulliing you mean the harassment, verbal abuse and racial slurs people throw out at people who bested them in PvP right? Like those miner who get all upset about a ship loss and then threaten to seek you out in RL etc. right?
Until they were perverted. Take freighter ganking for instance: Ganking used to be done by many players and occasionally as leisure activity. I did it a couple of times in the past and it was “fun”, lots of people from my alliance came together and we had a nice evening. Today? Look at the uninstall alt army, kusion’s alt army, Fizzleblade’s alt army, Whyte’s alt army, Rozei’s alt army, Gate Tax Collector alts, and so on and so forth. It also did not involve hours of bumping by a Machariel to “prepare” a target for the alts. Freighter ganking is not done by people any longer, it is done by bot armies. This is not how it used to be, this is not how it should be.
it doesn’t have to be a miner, although miners do get abused left and right in this game… I have never played a game where so much hatred toward someone mining a fawking rock drives these ego’s so bad that it makes folks quit… yet this community is near dumbfounded in denial on why folks not playing this game anymore.
im sorry eve has its good but it has a hell of a lot bad and that’s what everyone knows about eve which IS why its dying a long slow death…
all I can say to ccp is… go ahead keep it up… you can celebrate having a single shard game with only 20k people all you want to… we’ll see how that pays your bill at the end of the day. CCP needs to take a stand and change this HTFU attitude… its made them look completely stupid in the mainstream…and the idiots saying we don’t need mainstream numbers is full of chit cause you do… bottom line your pvp isn’t paying enough of the bills…
I don’t think PVE and PVP content should be different. That was actually my point. CCP acts like it does, though. They do it by making PVE fits and PVP fits (and ships) so different. They’ve improved in this regard, but if someone warps into my mission fit for PVP, and I’m not, I’m screwed. And if I’m fit for PVP, the mission takes forever – that’s a problem.
I heartily applauded when they gave the Skiff a decent tank. It could use some more offensive capabilities, but it was nice. CCP can still do more. And removal of passive income in the form of moon mining was also a big win, though I heard the nullsec empires are complaining that it means they’ll need to allow more industrialists.
Though I would argue against a point you made. There is no reason that PVE activity is needed at all in this game. Gun-mining used to be a thing and other games just place resources on your PVP victims. It goes against CCP’s game design of having a universe that feels real, but it’s totally doable.
Why there’s less people nowadays than before?
Think about 2004-5 all players was some pubescent near adults may be some precure wild animals.
Now the most part are father and mother with children and have made their wormhole in the real life and enjoy it. They now like the durability and the “Quant à Soi” and all changes and thing like when they were between 14’ and 25’ years old make them puke now.
They fight against all thingy who are not like it were 13 years ago.
I believe this is the population who disappear the most recently and the most who contribute to the null sec status quo of the last years after 2011.
When they saw all ths changes against their assets “hardly”… Looted, They thought they past the âge to redo all the wildest dumb things they have done to other, to not have the senses to remember how shallow dull and dumb they were.
Plus,
Like parents before their children they’re non sensical capable to talk and assume trashes and thrashes they did before. Neither capabble to talk life, sex and death today, when at the spotting time: 2004 2005 this was all pheromon out everywhere in space.
I think for instances to all the sexually oriented stuff that disappear along the years since 2004-5 just before the Msn, Youtube, Facebook, and such pre Instagram app on a camera-phone exist
So your claim about the bills not getting paid remains unsupported? K, just clearing that up.
I suppose success depends on how you look at it. From my perspective, there’s about as many users online when I log in as there were when I first started playing, and there’s usually retrievers to shoot. Happy customer, here. Shrug.
Do you have any example of this? I have never seen hate or abusive behaviour against miners, we just pity them. We pity them a lot. Because we have a heart.
On the other hand I have pages up on pages of mails and screenshot of abusive, hostile and extremely toxic behaviour of various miners and random carebears against noble PvPer folks who just try to enjoy the game by exploding a few ships.
This is not really correct. Freighter ganking is merely the result of the freighter pilot taking on too much risk. Stop taking on too much risk and the downside implications largely vanish.
Or like the Circle of Two leader who was recently in the news because he implied he was going to cut off the hands of the person who stole from him. If building things up in EVE has meaning than losing them has meaning too. And some people will be able to handle that loss and some won’t. But I’ve been targeted by gankers before and ganked my fair share and while I didn’t lose it with racial epitaphs, some of the gankers tried there best to do as much psychological harm as they could. Not every ganker is a bully, but ganking is going to attract bullies as the power dynamic is similar.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/65698200/ - How is an empty freighter “too much risk”? It’s a bit dull to fly around cargo expanded, yes, but an empty freighter is too much risk these days? And the killboard is littered with these nowadays, mostly killed by botting alt armies like Rozei.
And please do not give me the AFK hauling nonsense. I see CFC whale tracks of 5 Charons and Obelisks traveling on AP between Jita and Kor-Azor/Khanid nearly every day. AFK hauling is not the issue if those mega swarms with cargo can pass unchallenged.
My point stands: Things that made the game great are being perverted just because someone can.
You need to re-read @Ima_Wreckyou. The comment was that it was the miner who was the one hurling stunning amounts of invective and vitriol. Similarly when one catches say, somebody trying to do exploration in their space. If I and my alliance/coalition guys set up a camp and catch some schlub coming into our space to exploit the resources and we kill him…if he turns around and starts hurling invective and vitriol, that is toxic…and he is in the wrong. We did nothing wrong. We simply set up a check point to stop those who we don’t want in our space.
The point here is that nobody can neatly partition toxic/non-toxic behavior here. Will there be toxic jerks on the “PvP side”? Sure. Will there be toxic jerks on the “PvE side”? Sure.
And one final point: going out and shooting people in the face is this game is not toxic. That is a fundamental aspect of the game. If you don’t like…well, you know what to do. Close the client and uninstall, you are playing the wrong game.
While organized efforts to gank are often the result of financial incentives, not all ganking is. The problem is that CCP has provided itself no way to determine when behavior is motivated by the desire to cause emotional distress and when it’s just there to have fun. Harassment does occur. And sometimes it’s not the act itself so much as the little victory lap in chat or on the forums that proves the ganker to be a poor sport.
I’ve seen behavior out of people in this game that would get you shunned in real life communities. But the emotional response as a result of harassment is met with hostility in game and in the forums, it’s going to lead to an emotional outburst by the victim – even if the event that caused them the distress isn’t actually related to the event that led to the outburst. Cyber-bullying happens in EVE and CCP has done a pretty terrible job of dealing with it. And while ganking is often most associated with it, not all ganks are the same. I’ve lost my ship to ganks before. It’s not a problem. When the victor rubs your face in it, it’s really no different than if you were playing Monopoly and the victor started acting like a tool. EVE frequently has a lack of good sportsmanship. And ganking someone and then spouting out, unprompted, how they deserved it because they didn’t do X or Y, isn’t good sportsmanship. If asked, sure. That can be a positive result. But a lot of people gank and boast because they’re poor sports and that needs to be addressed.
What did they do to you? Your post sounds like losing stuff in a game justifies this hateful, abusive and toxic behaviour some PvPers have to endure just because they exploded a virtual spaceship.
The head up your own rear arrogance of you guys amazes me. It’s not like a freighter pilot can change his load out in a way that he can go to warp quickly or fit defensive weapons, or fit a anti-bump module over cargo expanders. I have seen the posts before. You guys pop freighters anyway, loaded or not so your too much risk claim is BS. Keep it up though. Pretty soon you guys will be the only ones left playing EVE. It will be fun to see you turn on each other when your all that’s left.
and some part of it has to do with doing more “purposeful things” (creating content for myself and my corp and for a common goal) and another part with the following: