I’m open to critique on this, but I feel the ability to safelog in the game is being abused. As I understand it, and perhaps I’m mistaken, safe logging was really meant for supers and titans. but now has become the go to cop out when you make a bad roam choice. So my question is do you feel its fair to roam into someones space get a gang to respond to you, then be able to exit the game when you get trapped or cornered in unfriendly space, and bypass the consequences of your decision? In a game that is supposedly all about player choice, and the consequences of your choices, I think it’s a cowardly cop-out, that should not be permitted. Anyone else agree? anyone disagree? I welcome the feedback.
What do you mean? You can’t safe log if you have any timer or are targeted. So if you as the hunter can’t target someone during their timers, you likely aren’t going to ever. There is no point if letting things drag on in a stalemate so why not let them safe log?
The consequences of my decision are being unable to keep roaming until my exits are clear.
Why should your gang get an easy kill if they are unable to inflict a 15 minute aggression timer on me and probe me down?
In a game that promotes PVP like eve does, I don’t think people should be able to safely log out in enemy space to avoid getting caught by a gang they provoked. I personally don’t safe log, when I’m roaming, ever. it’s just cowardly, to roam into someones’ space, knowing full well the consequences, then log out in order to avoid them when you get trapped. it’s a cop out.
why should you be able to remove your ship from the game world and avoid getting caught when you make a bad decision? it flies in the face of everything the game stands for
when you make yourself a target, why should you be able to deny the gang that traps you that kill by removing yourself from the game world in their space? Why should pilots who roam into your space be able to do that? just to avoid a kill mail?
I guess? If you are boxed into a corner, and can’t win, but still can evade your opponent, I see no reason why you should be forced to be exploded. You have a stalemate, and neither side can win, so why not let it end?
I don’t really have strong feeling about it either way, but people should be able to walk away from the game client at some point. It’s also not especially fair that you “win”, just because you outlasted your opponent who has to go to work or sleep or something.
I think the limitations on safelogging are already strong enough though. If you can’t catch them under the current rules, you aren’t going to as long as they stay at the keyboard, so I see no reason why they shouldn’t be able to end the chase.
Just my opinion though. You can believe what you want.
to me it’s more about intention versus options, the scenario is specific, and not intentionally broad. If I roam into someone’s space looking for kills, and I get a gang to chase me, and they corner me in a dead end system, in their space. so that I know if I take another gate i’ll die, I don’t think it’s fair to waste both their time and mine by logging out then logging back in every 30 minutes to see if they have left.
if you roam there and decide to log out for the night and go to bed that’s a different story. this post is aimed at people abusing the log off system specifically to avoid a loss mail, rather than just accept the fact they chose a bad spot to roam to and suffer the consequences.
Bear in mind I don’t post this out of malicious intent, people complain the PVP system needs to change, so they try to blast things like rorqual tanks and capital reps and DPS, but one seriously overlooked area is people logging off when they make a stupid decision, and avoiding getting killed specifically by using the log off to Blue ball their opponents. then log back in later to keep hunting without the risk of being caught, and the people i’m talking about do this multiple times in a day, not just once. anytime they know they can’t win they safe log.
If they can do that, no one has even activated a module on them, otherwise the 15 minute aggression timer wouldn’t allow for it. That means the fleet has not achieved anything concrete, they just warped on the guy. That hardly entitles them to a kill.
Even with the 15 minute timer running, the roamer just makes a few quick pings around the system and keeps dodging probes. Not fun gameplay for anyone involved, I don’t know why you would want this to last longer.
because the option still remains to catch them on their out gate, if they are fast enough to get away win for them, if they aren’t and they know it, and still made the decisions that put them in the situation they are in, why should they have a “get out of jail” free card, that removes their ship from the situation? why should they be able to remove themselves from the fight they provoked, just because it isn’t favorable to them, then log back in every few minutes to see if the coast is clear? it’s not a tactic, it’s an exploit IMO.
At least with cloakies, there is a chance you can decloak them as they try to escape, so there is risk the same any other scenario…except safe logging. Safe log removes the risk of getting camped or trapped by letting you remove a ship that wouldn’t be able to avoid getting killed, from a fight you put yourself in, that doesn’t favor you for the win, completely removes the risk of roaming, that is an exploit, that clearly stacks in favor of the underdog in any fight. I can’t win but, I can make sure I don’t killed by safe logging.
I’m not sure you are, but here goes anyway.
No the safe log-off is not being abused.
That’s interesting, but not really relevant. I know of people who never use ECM too, because: Spaceship Honour!!!
I think this is the issue. You feel that when someone enters a hostile dead-end system that they are trapped, this is not the case. If there was no safe log available (and they didn’t have probes to find themselves a WH exit, your specific example didn’t cover this?) the strategy is simply to bounce ‘safe spots’ until Down Time. At which point the cluster goes down and your safe. And as an earlier poster put it, is:
So to be clear, it is not an exploit even if you don’t like how the use of the game mechanics play out.
Not really about spaceship honor, but i’ll take your point. The fact you brought up options like a WH exit or bouncing around system till they let you go (not the most exciting option, but still viable, since no one would gate camp you till down time, unless they were really bored.) or attempt to crash the gate and roll the dice.
You have these options available, why do you need a magic get of jail free button that ensures you can just leave the game and be perfectly safe from discovery in enemy space until your garaunteed a clean exit, and if it isn’t clean you can just log out again and again until it is… at what point does that not become an exploit?
As far as i’m aware manipulating a game mechanic to attain an advantage over other players is the definition of an exploit… safe logging so you can’t be scanned down in an uncloaked ship when your camped in, gives you the advantage of being able to not be caught, garaunteed. Sure sounds like an exploit to me… we’re gonna have to agree to disagree on that one my friend. but the rest of your arguement i completely agree with. and good catch on the WH exit, it never occured to me to think of putting it into the scenario.
Edit: actually, yes, yes it is, the ‘you don’t like it’ is exactly what makes it an exploit… but the fact you don’t like it isn’t enough to justify its removal/modification.
If by exploit you mean they are ‘making full use of and deriving benefit from’ said mechanic I would agree.
However if you mean they are ‘making use of a mechanic in a way considered unfair or underhand’ I would disagree (though understand how you could think it’s unfair or underhanded).
The point being if you have been unable to engage a target to the stage where they have one (or more) of the previously mentioned timers preventing a safe warp you really have not caught anything and therefore do not get a ‘free’ kill as they attempt to exit via your gate camp. Honestly even if you are able to inflict those timers it is still possible for the nimble/quick witted target to escape.
It is not a magic get of jail free button at all. They are already safe in system, as is obvious because you want/need them to traverse the gate (the choke point) so you can get an ‘easy kill’ (assuming a blob by this point because you’ve chased them around system for < insert amount of time to not get bored that suits here > ). Is bringing in an alt with cloaky ship any different from multiple log on/off attempts to ensure a ‘safe system’ to exit? Or alternatively a spy in the opposing alliance so you know when everything has calmed down?
What happens if the dead-end system isn’t in Null Sec, should a “wrong turn” ensure a kill only in Null?
Haha! This really depends on your TZ, if your timing is on point, you could RF a structure and let DT extract the fleet
There’s two primary PvP rules in just about any game that lets you fight other players.
1: The fight was fair if I won
2: The next best thing after a kill is denying the enemy a kill
If you catch the guy with an Interdictor and enough ships to kill him, you won. You’ll get killmails and bragging rights even if he didn’t have a chance. If he can evade you long enough to safely log off he’s won under Rule N2.
Trapping isn’t equal to catching someone. You actually have to catch them in order to kill them. Trapping without catching will just waste time for both sides, until one party decides to log off.
Go get your probes!
If you don’t like it that they can escape your trap by logging off and then escape later when you’re offline, you could stay online to wait for their return. I don’t expect you to be that persistent, but you could do it in theory…
If you cant inflict a timer on them, and then probe them down, you haven’t really earned a kill. People do have to logout when Real life beckons, and to force you to return to safe space during every roam would be a terrible move. I think it would lead to a major reduction in content. Would be game breaking in fact.
■■■■ yeah it would. It’d send the message that you’ll be punished for having to log off, which would result in people simply not logging in!
People are still whining about not being able to catch people before they log out?
if you can’t catch them then they deserve to have the ability to log out without issues.
Don’t forget the opposite meta. Logon traps are a thing too. A number of times we’ve gotten a gang in place, safelogged at the sun. Tackle logs back in, tries to catch something. If they do, we log on and warp to them.
You can’t imagine the level of rage in local when they accuse you of exploiting your way through their bubblefucked gate so quickly. It’s downright glorious.
Logging off can be used offensively as well as defensively. I see no problem with either, both sides of an engagement have the same options at their disposal.
Edit: With context to this, you can use a logon trap to hide a fleet right on their outgate. Their scout goes through, reports the gate clear. Soon as you see him jump, your cloaky eyes tell everyone to log in. By the time everyone’s in, they’re already in warp on the gate.
If safe logging is breaking your game, up your metagame.
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