Yes, the phrase “human augmented Narodnya” suggests Narodnya is a heterogenous set which accepts members that are human and not-human, augmented and not-augmented.
I do not mean the term “workers” in any pejorative sense. I also do not mean to define Narodnya as “workers.” However, as an example of the heterogenous set:
“Workers” could be both drones and humans.
“Workers” could be both augmented and “base model.”
“Combatants” would also work as an example.
Edit: also “spaceship pilots.”
Combatants could be close to it, in at least one sense. The Triglavians are very big on proving, it’s almost a national sport. Narodnya in that sense could refer to people who are not yet proven. Although my favourite theory for the Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle is that they are the ones who have proven their worth, and in effect, won the Struggle.
It could also mean Narodnya whose augmentations are human in origin, as opposed to deviant automata augmented Narodnya (assuming Rogue Drones are running around putting implants into people).
The Trigrlavian billboard message was prepared in advance. Each word in the statement “human augmented Narodnya must choose the direction of their flow” is important. If it was important for us to distinguish between human augmented humans and rogue drone augmented humans, using the word Narodnya does not serve the purpose of communication as well as repeating human. That is demonstrated by this argument.
Narodnya does not mean human. It is a class that both humans and drones may belong to.
This is massive! Groundbreaking! This single paragraph I think is worth more than all previous discussion!
Tunnel-thinking made me think that Triglavian society was homogenous, but you’re right, it most likely isn’t. And though I still hold on to the notion that every Triglavian individual holds in his head a Troika, three personalities at once, I now also believe that those personalities are totally different from one another.
How can this be possible? My guess is that they for some reason stopped using clones and use normal people as vessels to load infomorph entities into.
Entosis of hivelinked foreign narodnya into body of a 3 tactical troika classification cladeship commenced at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) and corrupted Narodnya of Zembog Subclade. The Koschoi of the tactical troika advised immolation. The Navka consented and invoked immolation at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable).
Its remarkable that HFN2 Datastream mentions Sansha’s intrusion into a Damavik class ship pilots mind, and how it is exactly Narodnya part of the mind was affected, as we know Sansha are able to gain control over normal human minds.
Detached Executive Troika for Sublimation of Poshlost Flow dialectical semiosis flow (indecipherable) follows:
Deviant automata «encountered manifestations exhibit range of autonomy profiles» (indecipherable) reverse-time discourse-element (indecipherable) «organizing principles place highly against archive pattern analysis indicating upper ranges of autonomy for distributed artificial entities» (indecipherable) threat of corruption of vila autopoiesis.
Now-time discourse-element (indecipherable) «requests for comprehensive threat profile modelling are impinging on control norms for testing and analysis» (indecipherable) the consent-lock has invoked now-time imperative to establish noema with (indecipherable) metaxy. «Isolated testing and analysis will be carried out by» (indecipherable) «control measures will be used in recovery» (indecipherable) detached Navka have imperative to return to the domain of Bujan and offer procession to the Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle.
I do admit my former analysis of DAV5 Datastream was wrong. I mixed up “Detached Executive Troika for Sublimation of Poshlost Flow” and “detached Navka” as being the same entity. I now agree that Detached Troika is an entity dispatched for “Sublimation” (another interesting term) of external threats, and Detached Navka is an AI part of that entity, which supposedly is able to communicate with or influence Rogue Drones or Deviant Automata Vila.
It’s an infomorphic level society. So everyone has a link into the Cladeflow probably. It is not a hivemind but if you think of the cladeflow as a kind of internet, and you hook into it on different levels. So a member of Triglavian society can always see what the cultural approach to something is. Then different levels, or channels, one for the Clade, and another for the subclade, then if its a Technical Troika, one for that, and finally one for the Narodnya/Koschoi/Navka Troika you are part of. That’s kind of how I see it working, much like we use Alliance and other channels on GalNet.
I haven’t seen ‘Narodnya’ used in reference to the ‘deviant automata’.
I will amend: “Narodnya does not mean human. It is a class that human and not-human belong to.”
I am personally more and more inclined to this theory, that Triglavians are actually three minds/entities in one (probably manufactured) body. That would explain their references to “singleton format” as well as why they see Drifters and Sansha (aka one mind in countless bodies) as something entirely blasphemous.
The key to understanding them, in my opinion, would be in question: WHY do they have so much more minds/entities than bodies?
Marriage vows getting a bit out of hand?
Oh, I’m crying. The tears! Depending on how pervasive the “troika” construct might be in Triglavian family life, this may even fall close to the truth.
Narodnya failed to complete trigonometry homework. Koschoi recommended immolation. Navka consented. Narodnya immolation recorded at -indecipherable-. Koschoi recommended producing more offspring. Koschoi immolation recorded at -indecipherable-.
Can you cite an example of a non-human Narodnya?
There aren’t any, they are very specific about naming things. So Automata, Ancient Enemies, neither of which come under Narodnya.
Entosis: “Entosis is the invasion of a living cell into another cell’s cytoplasm.”
Triglavian communication: “Entosis of hivelinked foreign narodnya into body of a 3 tactical troika classification cladeship commenced at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) and corrupted Narodnya of Zembog Subclade.”
The phrase “entosis of foreign narodnya into body” references viral not-human attack.
Your argument now is not difficult to anticipate.
You will insist I make assumptions. That is true. Everyone in discussion is making assumptions.
You will assume that entosis is not being used in proper sense. You will assume it means instead an incursion of human forces. You will assume I am using entosis too literally. You will say something about capsuleer warfare. You will fail to notice my use also applies to information attack. You will then think of an excuse for why you failed to notice this, followed by an insistence that I am making assumptions.
You will assume hivelinked refers to Sansha’s Nation, and further assume Triglavians consider Sansha’s Nation human. Despite this, you will argue that use of the word foreign in place of human refers to entry of Sansha’s Nation humans into wormhole systems. You will dismiss the parallel with viral entosis as coincidental, and insist I make an assumption in conflating them.
I recently entered a wormhole system to see what it was about.
I saw more capsuleer structures than cosmic signatures. Despite such a presence we are not called augmented foreign narodnya. Similarly, Sansha’s Nation is not called hivelinked human narodnya. I assume Triglavians do not consider Sansha’s Nation human. Instead they are a biomechanical inhuman monster. You will assume that use of foreign without human only represents word choice by Triglavians. Your argument will be that they chose not to specify hivelinked foreign human because human should be assumed.
We will not make progress. To wrap up:
I assume different words used in the same sentence have different meanings. I translate narodnya as combatant. Maybe champion follows archaic flourish better.
My translation of the billboard message:
“Human augmented champions must choose the direction of their flow.”
You assume narodnya means human. You write:
“Human augmented humans must choose the direction of their flow.”
Because we will only disagree, people must choose the sentence they prefer.
Uhm, no.
It was Sansha. That’s who the ‘hivelinked foreign narodnya’ are. They’re Sansha. And they’re still human.
People must choose the sentence they prefer.
That’s not a preference - the Triglavian Collective refers a the type of life present within Sansha’s Nation - True Slaves - as “Hivelinked Foreign Narodnya”. You conveniently left out the rest of the sentence for that datastream there:
Entosis of hivelinked foreign narodnya into body of a 3 tactical troika classification cladeship commenced at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) and corrupted Narodnya of Zembog Subclade. The Koschoi of the tactical troika advised immolation. The Navka consented and invoked immolation at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable).
A 3-ttc cladeship is a Damavik - this means that Sansha’s Nation True Slaves boarded a Damavik and “corrupted” those onboard, possibly referring to something along the lines of the nanites they’ve used in the past during their planetside incursion abduction operations.
The Koschoi of the “tactical troika”, now known to likely be a sort of high-level participant-member of the same type of trio as Zorya (the Detached Executive Troika), advised to destroy the vessel, and the Navka (likely in the form of Vila drones flying alongside this Veles Cladeship) acquiesced.
Yes this is very true the entry was within the body of the ship meaning the Sansha troops boarded it however I can’t wholeheartedly agree on the origin of the Navka entity as we already can make out its the triglavian nomenclature for AI . To this I must point you to the first Scope broadcast about the damaged Vedmak in Yulai on the bottom news band in the video broadcast there is a mention about Amarr Empire requesting a council meeting to discuss implications of triglavian AI discovered. What I’m trying to say is Navka may be used for both allied drones and triglavian AI and we can’t say for certain which one was part in the decision making in this case
The big give away is the billboard video. The voiceover synchronises with the video, so Ancient Enemy and Drifters on the screen, AFN and the video shows Sansha ships. Seems indisputable to me. The Jove had the capacity to host infomorphs in a VR environment, makes sense that technology is not that different for hosting an AI. The Triglavians use automata for AI, we still don’t really have enough information to determine whether Navka are AI or infomorphs at present.
I also had another idea, they don’t need to be sharing the same body, a headspace would suffice. So on a Triglavian ship maybe, the Narodnya and Koschoi use pods, or some kind of transneural interface and the Navka takes over the coffee machine or something. I can see the Koschoi piloting the ship, Narodnya running repairs and stuff and the Navka running the drones.