Two clips are visible so far - the first is linked earlier in the thread, and has two parts placed, while the other is the one I just put down & has four - we’ll see where it goes~
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I know I’m pretty late to the party with some re-analyzed older material but still…
Damavik → Kikimora → Vedmak → Drekovak → Leshak
Frigate → Destroyer → Cruiser → Battlecruiser → Battleship
Their ship size classification corresponds to ours, its a well known fact. But they also have numerical “tactical troika” classification to those ships which goes
3 - 9 - 81 - 243 - 729, which when written in trinary form looks like
10 - 100 - 10000 - 100000 - 1000000
Careful observer may have noticed a number missing from the progression 27 (1000 trinary). Which by the way is mentioned in HFN1 Datastream:
Cladeships of the 27 tactical troika classification in communion militant of Dazhbog Subclade of Svarog Clade encountered vessels under guidance of hivelinked foreign narodnya…
There is supposed to be a ship larger than a Destroyer and smaller than a Cruiser which I believe we haven’t seen yet.
Triglavian Logistics vessel Rodiva has numerical classification which is clearly distinct from Combat vessels, its “72 tactical troika” or 2200 trinary.
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I’m very confident that the Talocan are not who we’re encountering in the Abyss - given the Epicenter sites and the fact that all of what happened with Caroline’s Star (and seyllin by extension) seem to relate to them & the talocan, I don’t think we’ve seen any similar levels of capability in anything we’ve seen with the Triglavians yet.
This is true, but we know that the Seylinn and Caroline’s Star events were precipitated by detonation of Isogen-5 caches and the Triglavian tech uses a crystalline form of Isogen-10. It’s possible that the more powerful Talocan tech required Isogen-5 to work, and that when the ancient home was lost to them, they lost access to that resource. Abyssal Deadspace seems abundant with the crystalline Isogen-10 form and it’s possible the chaotic environment prevents the formation of natural Isogen-5. Even in our own corner of space I believe it only occurs in Type O1 bright-blue-white supergiants in tiny quantities, and it’s highly unstable.
That, and they not only have a seemingly intimate knowledge of the Second Jove Empire, their damage module also needs Sleeper encryption methods in order to produce a tech II version of, meaning their tech in that area is closest to Sleeper and, resultedly, Jove tech -making me very certain that we’re dealing with yet another Jove splinter faction, which has been separated from New Eden since at most the Second Empire era around two thousand years ago.
Hmm, I hadn’t considered that. We do know that the Sleepers we found in Anoikis were in suspended animation in their structures and that their bodies had still decayed beyond repair without harvesting our corpses and Jove tech. Evidently they were expecting a wake-up call of sorts and it never arrived, so what if some were originally left awake to research the cure for the Jovian disease while the rest slept?
There’s also the wrinkle that the Talocan ruins in Anoikis appear to be mega-ancient and many are in quarantine zones enforced by the Sleeper AI, and we know the Talocan emerged in the Okkelen Constellation around 16,000 years ago but we don’t know when they went to Anoikis. We have to consider the possibility that the Talocan empire may have died out to a disease long before the Sleepers arrived (Second Empire Jove was only 3,000 years ago), and if that’s the case then the Sleepers may well have been studying the Talocan and their incredibly advanced tech.
I’m imagining a timeline of events a bit like this:
- The second empire jove leave Curse in the three cryo-motherships in search of a cure for the Jovian disease.
- They discover the ancient remains of the Talocan civilisation and settle the area to explore and research their tech.
- Most of the Jove are settled in suspended animation in permanent structures, the Sleeper enclaves etc.
- Some proportion of people from each of the three cryo-ships remained active to research the Talocan tech, essentially three ruling factions.
- At some point there was a conflict between the three waking factions, the “war in heaven” ensues and ultimately the Sleepers are left without someone to wake them up.
I imagine the Tyrants may have wanted to rule again as they did in the Second Empire, for example, splitting off into what we now see reborn as the Drifter faction. We know the modern Jove at some point settled their current home regions closer to the four empires and started keeping a watchful eye on us, so they may have given up on the search for a cure and chosen to guide the empires as their legacy instead. That leaves a third cryoship’s leadership as a third faction, and perhaps that’s where the Triglavians come from.
Another point I wanted to bring to discussion about latest development and specifically datastreams AEA4, AEA5, AFN4, AFN5 and especially DAV4 and DAV5. All of which mention “Detached Executive Troika”, and “detached Navka” in DAV5. And we know that Abyssal Rogue Drones belong to Navka Overminds classification.
In earlier datastreams it seemed like there wasn’t common opinion about “Deviant Automata” between Clades but now they are called “Detached Executive Troika”.
It looks like Rogue Drones, at least their Abyssal inhabitants became in some way a part of Triglavian Race.
Detached Executive Troika seems to refer to that which we know as Zorya Triglav - the streams detail some of their undertakings and operations, and seem to make reference to their increased works in contact with us Capsuleers.
Detached Navka are definitely something else, there’s a lot of out-there theory that the Navka may be a certain “loose” infomorph form, which has been able to make use of the rogue drones - we’ll see where that goes.
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Navka certainly appear to be either infomorph or AI, going off the video message as much as anything. Shackled would seem to indicate some kind of constraints, where as detached indicates they are free of those.
One more thing. Ship descriptions at least in my opinion imply that Leshak opposite to all other ships was accepted without “proving” which might imply a hurry. They didn’t have anything better so it had to do.
And finally I was thinking of “Flow of Vyraj”. Could Vyraj turn out to be the ship they are building currently. Flow of Vyraj being Abyssal pocket with the ship.
Leshak accepted in a hurry, Intruders seeking to “corrupt the Flow of Vyraj and the Domain of Buyan”. I mean can we be witnessing another War in Heaven? And Triglavians losing that war?
Flow of Vyraj has been discussed a lot, its an ideological approach the Triglavians base their society on. Domain of Buyan could be some kind of homeland or base though.
Is there anything to suggest the war ever ended?
Yes, the Leshak was definitely a hurried addition to the cladeship lineup - it seems to be an old design compared to the other ones, and its schema was given freely by Veles Clade.
Vyraj seems almost to be something of a spiritual or immaterial thing, if I had to place a bet I’d say it may be their way of speaking about life/afterlife/life moving onwards, and it may be a real thing - Navka (if they indeed are some form of free infomorph form) reentering the flow would line up well with their hypothesized nature, moving into a new physical form in this sort of afterlife cycle.
Buyan, though, I may guess to be a more physical thing - and perhaps these titanic vessels we’re seeing are connected to it. There is definitely a war in heaven right now - the Drifters are coming after the Triglavians in their own home, but why? We need to find more answers before we can fully understand the conflict.
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Dead or otherwise departed, the “obvious” indicators that the Talocan fought with the Sleepers were always a bit “too obvious.” The conflict also seemed suspiciously one-sided. However, if the Talocan people had vanished long before, and their ruins instead provided a cause bellicose for a “war in heaven” between rival Jovian factions thousands of years later (from the Talocan perspective) or roughly 3,000 years prior to present (from our perspective), that pretty much just works, darling.
Your scenario also prevents the Talocan from being yet another Jovian faction, which I much prefer to classifying every civilization with advanced space-travel prior to 3,000 years ago as “Jove.”
Of course it does mean they are all dead, which is tragic, but tragedies happen.
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The current conflict appears to be relatively recent. Going off the first appearance of Drifter Deathballs, both Sansha and Rogue Drones are pretty new developments.
From my own knowledge of the Second Empire, and the dating & observation of Sleeper structures, I might construct a little bit of a timeline guess as well - I like some of your observations there~
- Second Empire, still under the governance of the Tyrants, begins to collapse
- Sleeper Jove subfaction leaves for Anoikis, using Talocan-based navtech
- The doors to Anoikis are closed behind them, separating them from the cluster
- K-space Jove remnants regather and form the Directorate (Third Empire)
- Sleepers for some reason never wake up, & begin to rot
- (I like your idea that the wakeup signal never came - who would have been responsible?
- Seyllin occurs, Anoikis is revealed again
- Caroline’s Star occurs, and more of Anoikis opens up
- Newly accessible systems all have Epicenter Talocan sites with now-busted static gates
- Drifters emerge from the ruins of the Sleeper Civilization
- Drifters name themselves as “Tyrants” again, taking up that mantle
- Drifter Hive systems lack epicenters, but have Nexus anomalies - connected somehow?
- Drifters amass in the Hive systems (see the Tukoss video)
- “Warzone Extraction” sees Drifters failing to claim Trinary Relics
- Relics are found in previously hidden Sleeper infrastructure in K-space
- Sleeper Drones seem unaligned with Drifters, defend the sites and guard relics
- Astromancer Incident - capsuleer carrying trinary relic interrupts CONCORD research
- This research was involved with the discovery of the Abyss
- CONCORD warned of colonizing neuromemetic worms from the relics
- Drifters begin emerging from Abyss en masse in damaged fleets
- Capsuleers gain info on the Collective for the first time, their language most of all
- CONCORD captures a Triglavian vessel
- Capsuleers begin entering the Abyss
- Triglavians take an interest in us
- Triglavians have knowledge of the Second Empire and Tyrants
- Triglavian schema are compatible with Sleeper (Second Empire Jove) encryption
- Guess: Drifters entered the Abyss using the Nexus Structures somehow
- Guess: Caroline’s Star made this possible somehow, perhaps kickstarting the Nexus
- Guess: Triglavians are offshoot from Second Empire Era
(edit: added more above)
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End of the Second empire may be around 1000 years ago. I’m not sure with the Drifters, did they follow Sansha?
Jove Observatories keep coming to my mind and the fact that Drifters are clearly very interested in scanning those things, whereas Triglavians aren’t. We’ve never seen them outside Abyss even.
Could information gained from Jove Observatories give Drifters an upper hand in the War.
Looks to me like they are pulling parts off them, or at least materials. I’ve entosed a few and there is a lot of gleaned info, but I don’t think it has any bearing on the situation https://imgur.com/a/zwphF
The Drifters seemed to be more interested in the materials to be plundered from the Observatories, deconstructing them piecemeal to gather Antikythera Elements. The same likely happened with the Sleeper Caches we see now, having been plundered by an unknown party that knew their location and could decloak them in order to pillage the facilities (which seem to have been full of empire tech, precursor tech, and further research efforts).
Perhaps the Cache sites were opposed to the Drifters as the Warzone Extraction sites were, for some reason? If the Triglavians are an offshoot from the Second Empire somehow, maybe these areas were aligned with them, in opposition to the Drifters as they emerged from Anoikis - making them have to take aggressive action to claim their plunder.
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The Observatories may have an ability to see to (or through) the various forms of space on the table - wormholes, the Abyss, the Talocan static gate network, etc.
Controlling them does seem like it would be important, though they may also be dangerous. Like a wizard’s tower with a crystal orb at the top, if you look through the orb, you stare into the heart of darkness and go insane.
They are wrecks falling apart.
Ancient Enemy Azdaja «present manifestation encountered as Vigilant Tyrannos» reverse-time discourse-element (indecipherable) «archive pattern analysis indicates successor entity of Jove Empire of the Chamber of Tyrants» (indecipherable) evocation of poshlost undoubted and imperative for extirpation without proving.
Now-time discourse-element (indecipherable) «recovered materials indicates presence» (indecipherable) unshackled in forbidden dominance arrangement «counter to ideological patterns recovered pertaining to Jove Empire of the Chamber of Tyrants !query++encode|Jovian expansionist polity iter.2.?.?|recode++process! indicating anomaly in ideological development» (indecipherable) pass through advancing-time new discourse-element configuration.
– Partial translation of Triglavian Trinary Datastream AEA5
That’s the casus belli - they are an Ancient Enemy so “evocation of poshlost undoubted and imperative for extirpation without proving”. At least from Triglavians point of view.
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