You mean that it’s a negative sum game : competition always makes losers, while collaboration makes winners(it’s a positive sum game, even though the winner takes less than when competing). That’s why we have blue doughnuts.
And that’s why people leave the game when wardecced.
It’s a sandbox, don’t judge other people. If bragging is everything in their life, then be it.
Structures allow to reduce the cost/time of industry, and place moons. So they are supposedly assisting you.
In reality they are so easy to destroy, that you need to be present all the time to evacuate when a bunch of idiots decide to destroy it, setting you back for the time remaining on jobs you started.
What’s more with the recent changes on industry cost it’s just not worth installing a raitaru in a low index-system anyhow.
There is a whole thread asking what winning is to each person. That thread proves that not everyone in Eve has the need to destroy any and every ship that they can just to feel validated.
You’re in luck! There’s an entire area dedicated to being able to attack anyone with or without a structure and Concord won’t try to stop you! It’s called Low and Null sec!
Every ship that is destroyed…YOU mined the ore that made the ships that destroyed it. You are as up to your neck in the carnage of EVE as anyone else. So spare us the sanctimonious BS…as the entire EVE economy depends on destruction for your ore to have any value.
Actually, the ‘entire EVE economy’ depends on having active players in the game.
Destruction can come from anywhere. Hell, NPCs can cause as much high-sec destruction as wardecs; Trig invasion showed that.
Using “EVE depends on destruction” as the justification for ridiculous abuse of wardecs is like trying to ‘stimulate the economy’ by burning down factories and shooting workers.
The destruction caused by wardecs is pathetic, since only 20% or less of wars result in even a single kill per day (as per CCP’s own stats, see: https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/war-war-sometimes-changes ). And as my own quick review showed, as much as 90% of current wars don’t produce any kills at all.
In fact all high sec destruction in total isn’t even that significant to the economy. In December of 2024, here was the destruction breakdown by security sector:
Security
Killmails
ISK
% ISK
PvP Kills
PvP ISK
% ISK
Notes
High
59,355
9.23t
12.3%
24,834
7.31t
9.8%
Low
135,388
19.45t
26.0%
128,933
18.51t
24.7%
WH
41,317
9.07t
12.1%
33,491
8.36t
11.1%
Null
196,510
32.61t
43.6%
179,446
28.74t
38.4%
Abyss
9,075
2.32t
3.1%
175
42.05b
<0.001%
Non-Pochven?
Pochven
11,547
2.15t
2.9%
Region 10000070
Total
453,192
74.83t
100%
366,879
62.96t
84.1%
No Pochven PvP
Disclaimers: Quick grab from zKill Advanced menu, not 100% accurate or complete. zKill doesn’t have a separate Advanced Search option for Pochven so I used some potentially inaccurate URL tricks to estimate them. The numbers from that seemed low to me, and no separation of Total vs. PvP, but CBA refining it more than that. The deniers gonna deny, anyway.
ALL highsec PvP totals only 10% of the destruction in game. And wardecs make up only a tiny fraction, probably less than 1%.
It’s a case where the “justification” (EVE needs that 1% of destruction to drive the economy) is totally and ridiculously out of proportion to a game mechanic which drives thousand of players per year out of the game.
EVE needs active players. It can easily do without the pathetic percentage of Wardec destruction. However the ideal goal will be to find a way to keep some of both.
(Edit 1: table re-formatted for clarity and added %ISK columns.)
What does that have to do with war decs? Absolutely nothing.
The ore could go to ships for new people that would have been chased off.
You could stop all ore sales and it wouldnt affect my gameplay at all. I have a lot to do. I mine, i transport, I explore, I do industry, I do PI, i do security missions, etc…
There is one 0.5 I found with the toughest rats I’ve ever seen. Crook guards or something like that. I tangled with them for a while. It was fun!
Hell sometimes, I’ll travel all day just because I saw something interesting on Eve map in some distant corner of the galaxy and want to go check it out.
Recently, my corp leader found a wormhole that led to a 0.5 system. The cool thing about it was that the only stargate in and out of that 0.5 led to null sec space. We mined some pyroxeres and went home. That stuff can be tough to find. We would have explored more, but the wormhole was collapsing.
Mining is now the thing i spend the least amount of time on.
It is really refreshing to finally see someone in these discussions sticking to facts and arguments. Thank you for that.
The current core problem (funny wording ^^) of wardecs is that there is a finanical motivation to just wardec as much available targets as possible, because the drop of a single core from whatever station already covers the cost of the wardec multiple times over and every additional loot or kill is just a bonus on top of it.
According to EVEs website the wardec system should be, and i quote:
But that isn’t how the system is being used. There are no disputes, conflicts or ways to “settle” or any kind of relation between aggressor and target. It’s just a mathematical calculation to grind cores for profit. And this point needs to be adressed, groups should have options to experiment with structure management, use them as a corporation identity home, as a group-goal to save up for and build or as base of operations without instantly landing on a target list for easy legal robbery.
This could be easily achieved if CCP would be willing to redesign the Upwell Stations quite a bit (which are actually a main reason for many problems in the game currently), but I can’t see that happening any time soon.
They could had smaller structures that would not be war eligible nor core dependant, while not disputing a local resource like a moon.
The issue is that would allow corporations at war to use such a structure with an alt corporation, to have staging in a space occupied by at-war corporation.
This may be solved by having those structure not have a modifiable ACL, therefore only corp members could dock/rep/be tethered/etc. .
Actually I think raitarus and astrahus should be those ones : don’t require core in HS, do not make eligible to war. Athanors should still be, as they lock out a moon access. Unless you prevent them from fitting a drill.
Also, those structure should have more restrictive placement range so that they don’t prevent other structures from being placed close to gates, and therefore should not be placed on moon mining location.
In short :
smaller structures have reduced ACL : only their owner corporation’s members can dock, use services, get tethered. Also they can’t become the source/destination of a courier contract unless the acceptor is in that corporation.
smaller structures have an increased minimum distance to place them (times ten compared to other structures). They can’t be placed on limiting spots, like moon mining location.
smaller structures can’t fit drill (which anyhow is unusable because they can’t be placed on moon mining location)
smaller structures do not make their corporation war deccable
smaller structures don’t require a core anymore in HS. (not mandatory. maybe bad)
I’ll add “Give smaller groups the chance to experiment with structures” to the list of design goals.
(Table from previous post has been fixed, guys. Thanks for the help, I do know how to do them, just didn’t have time to do the fiddly table setup earlier.)
In the first place, in terms of actual kills it is 13%. And given that there are 6 areas in which kills could occur…then if you divide 100% by 6 you get 16.66%
So the rate for highsec is actually only a few percent off what you’d expect compared to an average across 6 areas.
Trying to present it as ‘just 10%’ is dishonest. But par for the course, it seems.
Your ore makes the very ships that fight those wardecs. Gosh, you are like some arms manufacturer trying to pretend that war somewhere that is using your bullets is ’ nothing to do with me, guv ! ’
You are part of a war economy whose sole end purpose is war and destruction. That is what all the mining and manufacturing is for. You can’t just pretend you are in some separate reality and war has nothing to do with you…as you are up to your neck in it.
And why do you insist on blaming me for war decs? I’m beginning to think that you have no concept of reading comprehension. Even if I stopped all mining completely today until the end of time, it would have no effect on anything in Eve.
High Sec destruction is 10% of total destruction in this game. TEN PERCENT. You may want to find a math teacher to explain that to you. The amount of ore I sell on the open market would amount to an estimated 0.0000000000% of all ore sold in this game each day. Ask your math teacher about that too.
War Decs and me have nothing in common. Ever.
And stop acting all big and bad about your killboard. You’ve basically got nothing bigger than a destroyer in almost a year. In that year’s time, you’ve only gotten one kill in low sec. See? If you make fun of someone else’s kill board, people are going to do the same to you. Killing shuttles and frigates in 0.9 while in garbage ships doesn’t make you scary.