Arshat AAR - Recovering From Liminality

As many no doubt have already heard, the system of Arshat in Domain was the first system successfully pulled out of liminality and I feel an account of the events should be retold so people have an insight on how it was done. It is important that those trying to save a system from Triglavian control don’t give up in liminality, because it’s not the end of the fight. Armed with knowledge on how it was done, I’m hoping others can better help fight against the Triglavian menace.

The fleet, initially led by Commander Debes Sparre, consisted primarily of the forces of Electus Matari (EM) and Phoenix Naval Systems (PNS). Over the course of the night the fleet was joined by several members of Khimi Harar (LUMEN) as well as a good number of the more experienced EDENCOM supporting pilots from a multitude of nationalities, political alignments, corporations, and alliances. People who have been enemies for a long time worked together for hours in that fleet. Many pilots worked hard all night, only resting after receiving reinforcements from fully rested pilots with earlier sleep schedules. A few didn’t even rest in the morning.

Around 01:00 when Arshat was on the verge of entering liminality, we began to form next door in Sadye, waiting for everyone to gather on a gate due to there being no stations in the system. We formed a little slowly because PNS, who had forgone a planned operation in lieu of coming to aid with the defense of the system, very understandably still had a ways to travel to meet up with us. The composition we went with was an armor battlecruiser fleet with a focus on Harbingers with Guardian support. We had eyes on the Triglavian loyalists as the system approached liminality with the hopes of being able to jump on them the second it flipped, but we were slightly delayed and the Triglavian supporting capsuleers just locked the flashpoints and left the system directly after liminality.

It was disappointing that they left. Our biggest desire was to send them home, either in their pods or through death. But we shrugged our shoulders, jumped into the system, and began massacring the Triglavian invaders. The main crux of our plan for system control was to protect the Imperial Fleets and allow for their numbers to build up as reinforcements arrived in the system. We had several scouts constantly on the lookout for Imperial fleets so we could intervene and ensure their victory when they engaged Triglavian forces. We were also proactive about clearing out Werposts, Superextractors, and roaming Triglavian fleets. While we had a couple pilots clearing out emerging conduits, we didn’t really focus on the anomalies; they’re just not what win system control. Removing the Liminality Locus from the Stellar Fleet site however were deemed worth it. PNS put in a particularly great amount of effort to move a cruiser fleet into system so we could destroy the Triglavians’ little beacon.

Progress is very slow at the start. It seemed like we were making very little in the way of gains in system control for the first few hours. While it was no doubt made much easier by the Triglavian supporters completely abandoning out of hubris, the push for control with just the Triglavians took determination. Determination that we didn’t even expect to have at first. Within the first few hours, there were murmurings of pushing the system all the way back, but it wasn’t until around 05:00 that we would commit to doing so.

Around 05:00, the Triglavian supporters in Stribog Clade tried to re-enter the system in hopes of stopping us. We had just cleared a Triglavian fleet from the Sadye gate when I saw a bunch of gate flashes and several red names enter local. Commander Sparre had however initiated a fleet warp, so I canceled my own warp and screamed for others to do the same. About five of us, including myself did. I believe it was three Harbingers and two Guardians. I engaged the Stribog Leshak-centered kitchen sink fleet of 13 while Commander Sparre brought the rest of the fleet back to the gate. Despite me shooting first and taking gate guns, the Stribog fleet was unable to down any ships before the rest of our battlecruiser fleet landed and made short work of the enemies, quickly dropping four Leshaks and an Ashimmu and causing the rest of the pilots to jump back out of the system, tail between their legs.

The small battle itself was by no means significant in terms of ISK, quantity of ships, or difficulty of the fight. But we tasted victory and it lit a fire in our hearts. We decided then and there that Arshat was to be our victory and that they could try and stop us if they dared. The previously weary demeanor of many faded away as we were filled with enthusiasm and conviction.

We continued to push in very much the same fashion throughout the night. In total from Liminality to Redoubt took from roughly 01:30 to roughly 18:00. Pushing a system from Liminality back to Redoubt is a massive commitment. At the very least, you need to protect the local navy, keep down the Werposts, and be ready and able to destroy anyone who would push against you. With the immense amount of effort required to save a liminal system, you cannot play patty cake with the Kybernauts. If there’s opposition in system attacking the navy, the already extremely long time it takes to flip the system would take far too long. Nothing but overwhelming force will save a system once it goes into liminality.

38 Likes

Khimi Harar was slow to form with a single member (myself) joining the fleet on initial entry into the liminal system due to leading a rearguard action from the late afternoon through to 0100 NEST. This rearguard was planned in conjunction with Electus Matari leadership to buy time and was ultimately adequate. I would like to extend thanks to the many independent capsuleers who joined us in that action.

We are also grateful to Electus Matari and Phoenix Naval Systems for their unwavering commitment to the defense of New Eden and in particular to Commander Sparre for his critical leadership of this operation. We would also be remiss to forgot the dedicated pilots who took over and finished the job

Speaking for myself, as a K’vire not of the Faith and a mere legionnaire, when the Cold Wind is blowing, you have to accept it and adapt to its flow or perish. So too must the Empire accept that they if they desire survival, they must embrace the changing winds and adapt. They owe the success in Arshat to those they would oppress and the catastrophe of Niarja clearly shows how dire the situation really is.

4 Likes

The victory in arshat, while succesfull since they push back a first liminality system, it was undone by the disaster at Niarja.
A trade route was left for dead end fortress that have little resource.

Dazh Liminality Progress

1 Like

You realize Arshat has a temperate planet and Niarja does not, right?

I’d choose to save more people over saving a capsuleer trade route any day.
Obviously saving both systems would have been preferable, but that’s not how the cards fell.
But nothing’s undone.

But by all means, continue with your propaganda.

8 Likes

Sometimes you have to leave someone behind for the greater good

Maybe losing niarja is a benefit for amarr, maybe not, i will let other to judge it.

I really couldn’t care less what happens to Amarr as a capsuleer trade hub. In fact, it’s probably better for me personally if it shrinks and its business goes elsewhere. I also certainly don’t presume to have the market expertise to make any meaningful predictions about its future.

It’s just sad to see the Triglavians win anywhere and get more resources and whatnot for whatever it is they’re doing. It’s sad to see civilians, even in sparsely populated systems, fall under Triglavian control.

That’s why I wanted to report on how we flipped a system in liminality. So it can happen again.

Honestly until we get a civilian said whot is “triglavian occupation” i will “suspend my disbelif” ( something life that )

We have reports from various systems already.

Evacuation efforts are stopped and anyone who resists is massacred.

Those who don’t resist live in occupation and get to wait for whatever the ultimate fate of their systems may be.

The people of the colonies in Raravoss vanished entirely. There’s still communication in Vale. Caldari citizens get massacred because they fight.

2 Likes

Triglavian Collective forces have mounted an invasion of the Niarja system in the next step of their renewed offensive to conquer New Eden systems across the cluster. EDENCOM’s Provost Marshal Kasiha Valkanir has designated the defense of Niarja “the top priority of EDENCOM forces” and CONCORD’s Inner Circle has declared it vital to the interests of “New Eden Civilization” that the key trade link between the Amarr Empire and Caldari State be maintained.

Triglavian forces began the invasion of Niarja in the early hours of YC122.08.17, with this strike at the sole Amarr Empire system bordering the Caldari State a clear threat to the two allied powers.

On the primary trade route between the Amarr and Jita systems, Niarja’s importance as the single Amarr system directly connected to the Caldari State across the primary stargate network cannot be overstated. Disruption of this vital link between the two traditional allies would have severe repercussions for the economic health of both the Amarr Empire and the Caldari State. In the context of the war with the Triglavian invaders and the EDENCOM alliance, even the Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic view the defense of Niarja as a strategic priority.

1 Like

Yes, Aldrith. I’ve read that.

Doing so doesn’t really change anything that I think, but thanks for sharing.

Niarja’s importance as the single Amarr system directly connected to the Caldari State across the primary stargate network cannot be overstated.

Disruption of this vital link between the two traditional allies would have severe repercussions for the economic health of both the Amarr Empire and the Caldari State. In the context of the war with the Triglavian invaders and the EDENCOM alliance, even the Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic view the defense of Niarja as a strategic priority.

1 Like

You can post that as many times as you like, Aldrith.

Bolding some excerpts from The Scope that I’ve already read just isn’t something that’ll change how I feel about the situation.

I do think its loss is another thing that’ll contribute to the State being in absolute shambles when this is all said and done and it’s definitely a loss in the context of this war, but I think its strategic importance is overstated.

importance

cannot be overstated

even the Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic

strategic priority

1 Like

While many Kybernauts will do everything in their power to try and devalue your victory in Arshat, I’d like to congratulate you. One of my main criticisms of Edencom’s supporters is the apparent lack of conviction, their complete unwillingness to risk anything in defense of these systems when concord retreats and we can strike at them without intervention. While I’m not so sure about PNS, who I have seen attacking capsuleers indiscriminately in liminal systems regardless of which side they supported, the rest of you have definitely shown a greater commitment to the cause than a number of your comrades. For this, as well as accomplishing something we’ve never been capable of despite our best efforts, you have my respect. Had more shared your conviction, perhaps Niarja would still be in the empires’ hands.

1 Like

It seems to me that both sides of the conflict lose a lot of numbers in low security and liminal systems.

Doesn’t really make sense to me, honestly. I prefer the much more straightforward process where we can just fight you and clean up the system uncontested afterwards. CONCORD’s nonsense bureaucracy working against its own interests and leaving the Rapid Response Protocol in place to protect capsuleers siding with the Triglavians in high security systems is going to cost countless lives around the cluster. The high security invasion systems merely turn into a slaughtering race because of it.

If CONCORD can’t properly disable Rapid Response Protections for the capsuleers siding with the Triglavians, they should just shut down the system completely in active invasion systems.

1 Like

How Concord has been handling this is questionable and hasn’t done anything to help their case. The only reason I can think of is that this is being done to prevent further outrage from some of the already irrational Capsuleers who think that the very idea of Concord is oppressive and to be stamped out, as unequal treatment could very well stir up some anger in those not aligned with Edencom or the Collective. It does benefit my side, but I see it as another failure of Concord and another example of why we need to either fix it or replace it with a more effective organization.

1 Like

Caldari State has much bigger issues than Niarja at this time.

11 Liminal Systems (of 17) and counting.
13 Triglavian Minor Victory Systems (of 23) and counting.
We are being slaughtered.

The Amarr have a much better shot at survival.

The victory at Arshat is a sign of hope that what was done can be undone.

2 Likes

As one of the members of the Stribog fleet that pushed Arshat into Liminality, I can say for certain most of us did not want to abandon the system that we had worked hard to push into First Liminality against the amarr, which in my personal eyes are one of the only Empire’s navy taking the invasions seriously.

We were ordered to leave and reinforce another liminal system that majority of other Kybernaut aligned groups were pushing due to their low numbers. The engagement you guys had were a few of us who wanted to attempt to slow you guys down in retaking the land.

In the end all I can say is congratulations on taking a Liminal system back. We’ll make sure it’ll never happen again.

Are you saying that because we could not save Niarja, we should not have saved Arshat either?

Or what’s the point here?

2 Likes

I’m not sure either. Forces from Arshat redeployed to Niarja promptly, so what is anybody arguing about?

“Tiger space Thedark” is throwing out rotten bait. There’s no reason to bite at it.

2 Likes