For the same reason you insist on feeding the idiocy by reading and answering his stupidity.
so if i shine a light on something it get darker ?
or are you saying my light is so bright that is making them blind?
You are confusing visual meshes with collision meshes once again.
Eve has exactly what youâre describing: static collision meshes. In Second Life, when you place down walls or chairs, I imagine theyâre not visually moving/rotating. That means their visual mesh is static, so the collision mesh can match it very easily by also being static. âVisual mesh is static, collision mesh is staticâ.
In Eve Online, asteroidsâ visual mesh is rotating and being visually dynamic, so CCP Games decided to create an unchanging sphere for its collision mesh, which means the collision mesh is static. âVisual mesh is dynamic, collision mesh is staticâ.
A fair comparison would be placing a hundred or so âSuper Mario 64 Bowserâ objects in Second Life. Except when placed, he rotates around a point just beyond off his tail like an invisible Mario is swinging him around. Thatâs visually dynamic. Now the question is âwhat sould Second Life do about the collision mesh?â Does it accurately measure Bowserâs rotation about his tiny tail, and very finely allow hundreds or potentially thousands of people to get bodied by hundreds of copies of Bowser without clipping through and without âbumping into nothingâ and without lagging the server out by making the collision mesh dynamic? Or do they put a static collision mesh around his visual mesh so no one can attempt to get bodied by Bowser, they can only watch from afar.
And then what happens when Bowser rotates into something else with collision geometry that is unchanging? For example, a wall. Does Second Life destroy the wall? Does it become a detached asset that can fall around and detach other assets and still be impassable rubble to players, collapsing a building? Or does Bowser lazily clip through? Second Life having destructible environments which retain collision geometry (most games are lazy and let players run through rubble instead, as if they had no collision mesh) would also be an acceptable comparison.
I heard Second Life has a super realistic simulation of sex in outer space.
Bro, nice explanation.
Please explain to me, like if Iâm a 13y old, why are you calculating the collision on the server?
Servers are loops of simulations and coordination, the game runs on the client. Did I miss something?
o7
You certainly did.
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You do it once and then never do it again. The server is already doing calculations with a hitbox, the client is already handling a visual. The thing is these two just arenât the same shape.
Well, the client controlling the game would be like an ATM telling a bank how much money everyone has and the bank just taking itâs word for itâŚ
Huh, I never actually noticed that despite starting at them for awhile.
This does make matching the visual and collision mesh a bit harder, but I think it should still be doable with the method I mentioned earlier. As long as the client has the âright timeâ it will display the correct position of the asteroid. If it doesnât, well it wonât match, but I have a feeling it will still be better than the current bubble mesh
Second Life operates on a hierarchy system of override levels. At the most basic level your avatar will correctly bump into objects at the exact position of the object. At the next level, individual animations âcanâ lead to incorrect collision or placement. For example I can adjust my avatar position so its legs are below the floor. The next level is animation âposesââŚwhere you can find, for example with a dance animation, yourself dancing âthroughâ chairs and stuff.
All stuff like rotation is dealt with solely by the client. Which is why you can find yourself doing a line dance in SL yet everyone is out of sync. But I would imagine Eve is the sameâŚall the server really needs to know is your vector, it doesnât need to know your exact orientation in space ( which I have also read makes the whole align-warp thing making you warp quicker is a myth ).
So Second Life does not have one single solution to collisions, but rather a series of overrides that prevent too much complexity being dealt with.
I would imagine the rotation of asteroids in Eve is entirely client sideâŚwhich would mean the server does not even know what the exact orientation of the asteroid is. But collisions could be client side tooâŚwith the fact that you have collided being sent back to the server. That would be the ideal solution.
Itâs a bit sad to see all these âyou know what I bet it would be simple to do!â non-programmer types tossing out theories here. Especially when they donât even know how client-server works in games.
So here you folks go. Yes, itâs possible to do it. EVE could absolutely have a perfect match between visual shape and collision shape. And if TiberianSun wrote the code for it it would have zero impact on processing.
But you know what? It doesnât. EVE is EVE. EVE objects are EVE objects. EVE engine is EVE engine, not Second Lifeâs. It doesnât match, and thatâs not gonna change no matter how many times you write âIâm sure it would be really easy and the client could do it no problem!â.
And if you canât figure out that maybe you shouldnât be flying to within 10km of asteroids if you donât wanna bump, then you probably shouldnât be trying to say how easy the coding would be.
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LolâŚthis ânon programmer typeâ spent 25 years programming, part of which was making games.
Clients lie, which is a big problem in any online game. You want to minimize the simulation power of the client, especially in Eve, and keep it only for smoothing interpolations between server updates (hence, rubber-banding).
Your âsolutionâ also has a problem that 3 miners in the same fleet will appear to each other to bump off the same asteroid at different distances. This breaks the âsingle, persistentâ universe of Eve if everyone gets to see a slightly different universe.
Given the creativity with which Eve players complain, I imagine this would load to a path where people will be asking for acceleration gates into deadspace pockets only they can see.
But everyone does anywayâŚnot least because of processing and server-client signal time. At the extreme end, for example at a nullsec confrontation where there were 1000 people in the system, I was several seconds behind what was going on. In fact it all got so laggy that I could not even scroll overview to see who was targetting me.
The other end of the scale is the single miner all on his own and bumping into asteroids while still 10km from them. I simply donât believe it requires vast processing power to resolve this. One could even apply a hierarchical process like in Second Life whereby it is processed accurately is thereâs just one or two people around but reverts to the spherical bubble model if thereâs more.
Well, at least we can tie this up in a nice conclusive bow and say weâve reached an understanding. You donât believe based on your game programming experience, I do believe based on my graphics, simulation, supercompute, and scientific visualization experience.
Edit to add: Maybe indeed Iâm wrong, and in such a case I still think it a mistake for CCP to address this issue instead of delivering features especially now in the post-fanfest world theyâve created.
There are simulations that can work out the n-body problem for 200 objects or more. Universe Sandbox being an example. OK so the âsolutionâ involves approximations but is still pretty accurate. So a simulation can work out the mutual gravity between 200 objects in real timeâŚyet Eve canât cope with one miner and one asteroid ?
Yep
Thatâs why the 1 miner is named Horace and in exchange Eve gets more than 1 asteroid per system. Sacrifices must be made.
If as a programmer I play-tested my own space-flight game and did a grind down the side of an invisible barrier while flying through an asteroid field, Iâd fix it. If I couldnât fix it, Iâd quit from shame.
Some people demand that a sim at least try to make sense. âThe Obviousâ should be the base line to build on. On the other hand some people accept and defend the ridiculous.
Thankfully this turd became apparent to me before I actually gave money for the privilege. It was close but my eyes were opened just in time.
