what “upcoming problem?” you can dock an unlimited number of supers in a keepstar, yes they are pricey, but so are super fleets.
maybe what we really need is a garage citadel, can hold a limited number of capitals and super capitals, but all they can do is dock, no fitting services, no defensive modules, nothing except a parking garage for your ship.
since that seems to be all people are really looking for in this thread.
Yes a “garage citadel” would be perfectly fine. You have to think about the small-medium sized alliances that can’t form fleets of hundreds of people to defend a keepstar, buying the keepstar isn’t the problem its defending it against fleets many times your size.
a “small-medium” sized alliance is unlikely to have the industrial power to get a super-cap fleet in the first place. 10bil isn’t that much for a single pilot, let alone a corporation, even a small one, living in null. thats what… 2 months rent for a decent system?
Do a CTA, get your corp to hit the anoms hard for a couple of hours and kick in the takings.
Thats why we buy them instead of building them, if I dropped a keepstar in low sec I doubt it would even survive the anchoring process. We could afford one but there is no point.
I was actually going to mention that, building a fortizar is considerably cheaper than buying one, and if you ask your corp members to focus their PI towards what you need and offer PI buybacks you can start pumping them out pretty damn fast (just grab the bpc’s off contract if the bpo makes your soul hurt)
Well I did say you would only be able to dock, you would not be able to change ships unless you had access to the limited space of the model and even then you only have space for 3 - 10 caps depending on whatever you think is a resonable number, if you want unlimited space for caps you would need to buy a Fort which if it was even 10 caps the majority would still need a fort. saying that just because you can store a limited number of caps in a POS means that there is no reason a outpost…
And just because you can hide a lot of caps under a POS forcefield doesn’t mean that there is no need for a outpost either, the very suggestion is ridiculous. There are uses to being able to simply docking caps and storing a small number and there are uses to being able to store an unlimited number of caps, if you only need the former there should be an option for you like there was with POS’s.
And considering I have said this multiple times you were obviously not listening, and by the flawed logic you are using you obviously have not thought about it.
I have listened, and it is still a bad idea, as you said, an astrahaus is much cheaper than a fortizar, and having multiple astra’s in a staging system, especially if any one of them could house a capital fleet (even a small one) is a tactical advantage, you can drop more of them for the same price, and so long as you x+1 for the number of caps you need to store, then you get free asset safety for any cap that is in the cit for a fraction of the price.
Using timezone tanking you can also make removing that many astra’s a huge drain on resources and morale.
The difference is that this mid point, you spend 1.2 bill if you want just an Astra you spend 3.2bill if you want the Astra to have limited cap storage and the ability to dock unlimited caps you spend 12 bill is you want unlimited caps and unlimited docks.
And to have 3 Astra’s with the a service each would cost you 9.6 bill if you are already spending that much you might as well spend 15 bill on getting a fort and 2 astra’s which give you much more expandability, and if you really want you could just make it so that anything in the cap service hanger gets dropped like everything in wormhole space if that is a super concern, and do you get asset safety for the ship you are in?
If you were to effectively spam citadels like this the fuel costs would add up to the point where it would be much cheaper and also more convenient to buy a keepstar, thats why it should require a significant amount of fuel to run.
if your running them long term, yes, but if you are only creating a beachhead for an invasion, one that might only last for 2 or 3 months, then the extra fuel cost wouldn’t be that large of a deal.
it might sound like a great idea for small corps, but you also need to consider the ways that mega-alliances could use, and abuse the system.
you also have not yet given any good reason for WHY you should be able to dock them in the smaller stations beyond the fact that you want it. if your corp has the kind of income to afford capitals, then your corp has the income levels for each member to donate a few hundred mil towards getting a fortizar in place to park them. and in the process get a tougher station to remove.
if your corp cannot afford a few hundred mill each in donations, then frankly, your corp cannot afford capitals.
I think the best option is to anchor an interdiction bubble and sit inside it with multiple super capital class vessels, just eject them in space.
What could possibly go wrong?..
Having built a Fortizar for my alliance I can confirm it’s much cheaper to build than to buy. A good BPC is not that expensive. The PI is time invested/opportunity cost, not upfront ISK. Same for the minerals.
Seriously these structures have a cost and functionality progression for a reason. It’s no good complaining that you wish you could have a smaller/cheaper structure that does “X”. How about you and your friends get better, instead?
i think the point is that there always was a smaller and cheaper structure that did x and now it has been removed without a suitable replacement
Rubbish.
Plus I believe the CCP devs have used a special expression for this type of situation in the past:
HTFU
only comment ive seen on this kind of thing by devs in the past is that they really dislike removing anything from the game unless they really have to so it seems strange they would remove poses without restoring the functionality they previously offered
its like in the past when people said remove things like defender missiles or some other garbage ccp said no we dont want to remove stuff we just gotta figure out a way to make it work better
they never said were removing stuff htfu
The functionality is that many are comparing a small tower with a Fortizar. How about comparing a Fortizar with a death star instead - that would set you back a good couple billion. Then add to the fact that the Fortizar doesn’t need fuel blocks or stront in order to store ships or be defended - so add infinite fuel cost saved.
People in this thread insist in comparing apples to oranges. Does an Astrahus allow docking of capitals? No. For that you need a Fortizar. Oh no, functionality removed etc. BS. It’s not like your capital ships would have been safe in a POS that only cost you 400M anyway. So quit whining.
well the op idea is actually a legitimate one
the only arguments ive seen against it are very shallow and seem to be based on personal bias more than anything else
it doesnt bother me either way i dont own poses citadels or caps
my opinion is impartial but your seems to be an opinion fueled by a sense of elitist brattiness
just my 2 cents ciao
No it’s not elitism. It’s the same principle that most EVE players learn over time. It’s one thing to be able to sit in a battleship, it’s another thing to be able to fly one. Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose. Etc. CCP made a gradual progression for a reason. As I pointed out in an earlier post: if you have capital ships you need to dock and you cannot afford a Fortizar - perhaps you’re doing something wrong.
A Fortizar is very cheap. If you don’t think it’s cheap, then you have no business having a fleet of capital ships. You are trying to play on an unsustainable level. I remember making my first million ISK, way back in 2005. It was tough for me. I also remember my first billion. That was tough too. Now, making those amounts of ISK are laughably easy. Why? Because I know how to play EVE.
Hence: if you are here suggesting that “there should be a cheaper structure that can dock capital ships” then you have a serious problem. A Fortizar - with its capital ship docking ability - is not meant to be owned by a single player. It’s meant to be owned by a group of players. A serious group of players has no problem coming up with a dozen billion or so ISK to buy/build and fit a Fortizar. So there is no need for a smaller structure with Fortizar-like abilities. Except of course for the guys who buy lots of ISK with PLEX and then think they know how to play the game. They want end-game at the beginning of the game.
so what youre basically saying is a playstyle which was once viable is no longer viable and this is how the game has always beeen because the game was always like that
so we go back to your battleship analogy
what you are suggesting is flying a bs is one thing
but when ccp increases the skill requirements by to fly a bs dont complain when you cant fly one anymore
because its basically your own fault
except ccp wouldnt do that
ccp would never raise the sp requirements of a ship and lock out a player who could previously fly it
what you are saying is that its fine to lock out players who could previously fly caps because they should know better and be members of a larger organisation than they were previously
and somehow this isnt elitist
and somehow this has something to do with you finding it easy to earn 1bn isk
but not elitist
a fortizar is meant to be owned by a large group
so screw solo players who kept their caps in poses
not elitist
and still your arguments just boil down to a personal bias you have against that playstyle
even though that playstyle always existed without issues
and youve offered no explanation for why that playstyle shouldnt exist anymore
seems to me the only reason youre even in this thread is because you just felt like getting on someones case and putting them down for no real reason
maybe youre in a bad mood and felt like taking out on someone idk
