Attributes are pointless

Communications Center General Discussion
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Just a question. What would be a recommended remap for a newbie? Depending on what activity he or she was doing. Say primarily PVP, exploration, or whatever.. What would any of that look like?

My recommendation would be Intel primary with Memory secondary. This will cover the majority of skills that make piloting and fitting a ship easier: Armor, Cybernetics, Shields, Electronics, Engineering, Rigging, Targeting. Resource Processing, Scanning, and many Subsystems are also covered.

For all other skills, use unallocated skillpoints earned via the AIR monthly track.

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Me and my wife obviously.

How else do you think I can recognise it in others?

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Well your thread sure proved to prove they are extremely useful, while there is a lot of off-topic post, there is also a lot of discussion as to which part is most valuable etc.

But at this point, hopefully it is clear to everyone that attributes are an extremely important part of Eve Online.

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Kind of like how we are able to control our skill point accumulation rate.

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When people say the choice should be removed because it is “tedious”, what they really mean is they don’t enjoy thinking.

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This is it exactly.

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THIS^^^^

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Capsuleers are objectively infomorphs. Rather or not informorphs are human is a matter of how one defines “human”. Hatch defines humanhood as being intrinsic to the flesh and blood anatomy of an organic species. Whereas for you it is a more philosophical concept concerning one’s conscious being.

For you the infomorph retains the original unique intact consciousness, and therefore humanity, of the person prior to the switch to the new medium. Spiritualism.

For Hatch, an informorph is just software, a copy of the copy, and not the original person because he defines human personhood in terms of flesh and blood. Having no actual body permanence is not a human because he defines a human strictly in the anatomical terms of a biological species and chemical makeup of the brain as a biological organ. Materialism.

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The question is whether a consciousness that was once human is still human, even if detached from the limitations of human form. There are a number of terms like transhuman, post-human, superhuman, “more than human.” These labels exist to differentiate from that which is merely “human.” Once we say infomorphs are post-humans, then they are not, by definition, “human” (else, why call them something else?). It might be correct to say we’re human-like. However, considering we’re immortal, and not even biological entities, would it not be more correct to say that we’re machine-like?

Going back to first principles, can we even say that the consciousness of a capsuleer was ever truly a “human” consciousness? A capsuleer’s consciousness is a digital image, copied from that of a living human—not transferred. The original consciousness (as far as we know) remained in the biological brain and was destroyed by the digitalization process. So, in a purely physical sense, our present, tangible (such as it is) consciousness never inhabited a human body at all. It’s simply modeled (closely, if not exactly) on another consciousness that formerly inhabited a human body (and died with that body).

From a materialist perspective: Is there an objective difference between the digital copy of a once-human consciousness, and a sentient AI, modeled on human consciousness, but created without a biological precursor? If that AI perfectly mimics the likeness of a human consciousness (emotions, self-awareness, etc.), is it considered “human?” If you can’t differentiate between a capsuleer consciousness and an AI, what makes the capsuleer any more human than the AI?

From a spiritualist perspective: If a human has a soul, what happened to that soul when we became a capsuleer? Was it copied? Transferred? If so, where is it stored? If we can never truly die, do we even need a soul? What purpose does a soul serve an immortal, digital being? And if we no longer have a soul, if it left our original body when that body died, are we still human without it?

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I have never believed in the concept of a soul. The idea of a force that somehow has a memory storage capacity capable of retaining an exact copy of the brain’s memories, knowledge, feelings, etc is ludicrous to me.

We are capseleers and each time one of us dies, a new clone rises up to take his or her place. It’s the closest we can ever come to immortality, but it’s not even close. Death is real and permanent. We simply have a replacement.

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As an agnostic (and a Caldari), I espouse neither belief nor denial. I’m only looking at the question of capsuleer humanity through both a materialist and spiritualist lens, as a matter of philosophy rather than theology.

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Well the irony is that if anything is nonsense its not the soul but the idea that ‘you’ ( your actual conscious experience ) can be transferred to a ‘copy’. It is demonstrable nonsense because the copy could be made and exist while you are still alive…and clearly the copy cannot have YOUR specific consciousness if you already have it !

A copy of you might think he is you, and even have all your memories, etc. But, he is not an extension and continuation of your conscious experience. He is an utter imposter, masquerading as you…whilst the real you no longer exists.

Thus Dr McCoy is totally correct to not trust the Star Trek teleporter, for all it really does is manufacture imposters.

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100% agree with this.

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As an old Gallente. I will leave the whole theological argument of whether we capsuleers have a soul or not to the Amarr. As they seem to be tussling with the question anyways. So there is that.

Do we even have souls to begin with? I have seen religions come and go. Some people change religion faster than people change their socks. If there is a deity and I am not discounting there could be one or even several. Unless something happens that I can not get into another clone body. I am not going to worry myself over whether I have a soul or not.

If I don’t and somehow my conscience can not enter another clone body. Then I am hardly going to be around and argue the point with any deity over the sad state of my soul. If I do have a soul. Well I guess I will end up in one of the thousand heavens and paradises. Or maybe not. LOL

As to whether We capsuleers are even human or not? My answer is that. Well I feel human. Am I still human or something else? Biologically I guess I am human. I have covered my opinion on the question of soul. Though it does seem to beg the question are our digitize conscience still qualify us as being human. Again I feel human. Still have the same emotions. Still am the old man that yelled at kids to get off my lawn (no I never really did that). Still am fond of my grandkids and children. So I guess I am still human after all.

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That’s the beauty of clones. If you are human, your clones are human. That’s how it works. If you’re not human, then neither are your clones. The bad thing about clones is that if a disease finds you and it’s strong enough to be life threatening, all of your clones will also be vulnerable to the same disease… that is unless New Eden has perfected gene therapy.

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Without putting a fine point to the discussion, but does out digitize conscience still qualifies we capsuleers as being human. Not the bodies, but our conscience. I feel human. Theology is all over the place with that question. The amarr church is still wrestling with it. Biologically the clone bodies we inhabit are human. I feel human. With all the intendent emotions, passions, and ambitions of being human seemly intact and present. I would say I was human. Not a superhuman. Though I can control a ship a thousand time larger than myself with a mere thought.

As long as there is a clone available anywhere in the cluster. I can be transported to it almost instantly. But therein lies the question. The body is human. I feel human. But is my digitized conscience truly human? Are the drifters, from whom this tech is derived from, truly human?

Even without the theological side of this. Or even the argument that I am I a copy, an imposter if you will, of the original. Science says the clone is human. Suggests that the digitize conscience is human. Leaving the hype of being a capsuleer alone. Does feeling human still mean I am still human? I can only answer that I feel human and would say i am human. Feel is not the same as being sure that I am still human. That is about as definitive as I can get.

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I wouldn’t hold too much stock in any answers imagined by religion. I mean… the Greek’s thought a huge Titan named Atlas held up the sky which is why it didn’t come crashing down upon us. From gods of beauty to talking snakes who lose their legs due to a punishment, religion is not the best source for scientific knowledge. The Amarr specifically believe that god told them that the entire galaxy belongs to them. Funny how they can’t find a way to prove that they are the deed holders.

As for the state of your brain’s knowledge when it reaches your next clone, well… we’d need CCP to answer that question. They’re the writers.

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Mine are technically vampiric.

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As an old gallente.. I have seen religions come and go.. Some were amusing .. Some truly bizarre.. Other meant well. Some religions stick around and seem to give comfort to those seeking answers. I do not look down on anyone that believes. But I draw the line at human sacrifice and giving up all wealth to a leader or worse. Those religions tend to get shut down. Especially the human sacrifice ones.

But as for answers I find religion to be mainly good for poetry and allegory. Still people put stock in what a religion says. The amarr certainly seem to.

As a Gallente. I am always willing to listen. As long as it does not include some guy from earth is going to pop up someday real soon.. That was real soon a thousand or so years ago and has yet to make an appearance. For reasons.

Yes, Aiko, you are a perfect vampire… I have no doubt about that. As I have never met a self professed vampire before. I have no doubt that you are a perfect vampire.

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We call that cannibalism.