Attributes are pointless

Or in short.
Remap difference is +10 primary, +4 secondary = 10 + 4/2 = 12 SP/min
Implant difference is +5 primary, +5 secondary = 5 + 5/2 = 7.5 SP/min

Yes everything varies with your skill plan and how many hours on average you spend in each of your clones (assuming some of them have attribute implants). Poor planning is bad, good planning is good, attributes understanding extremely important for game.

No.

Remap:    27 + 21/2 = 37.5 SP/min
Implants: 25 + 25/2 = 37.5 SP/min

There is no difference in optimized rate. The difference is that with a +5 set, the bonus applies to all skills, not just those that align with the chosen Primary/Secondary. (EDIT: and there are no disadvantaged skills training at 25.5 SP/min.)

The best newbie strategy might be:

  1. Sub Omega.
  2. Buy some starter PLEX and sell for ISK.
  3. Remap Intelligence/Memory to 27/21.
  4. Spend two weeks training Cybernetics V and Informorph Psychology I.
  5. Create a new clone and buy a +5 implant set.
  6. Remap attributes to default.
  7. Train a diverse newbie skill plan for one year at 37.5 SP/min.
  8. After one year, remap attributes annually to optimize specialized skill plans, training at up to 45 SP/min.

You need to also compare your +5 implants with +4 impants, if you want to compare remaps with partialremaps

What are you talking about? I’ve only addressed your assertion that neural remaps matter more than +5 implants.

For an attribute to have 20 points, there are already points assigned to it, which would be the default assignment.

People tend to default on the cheap +4 implants. So +5 is only 1 more than the default.

Until you get an idea what you want, the default is the right one. You can train some social / trade skills (Cha/x), basic drone skills (Mem/Per), and flip back and forth between some tank/navigation (Int/mainly Mem, some others) and ship/weapons (Mainly Per/WP, some WP/Per) without having to wait out the remaps.

This is a very important difference between remaps and implants for changing your attributes. Your remap points are already assigned. So you can remove them and place them worse. Losing SP/min. Which means there is a risk and its important to know what you actually want before doing.
Implants you start without, and there are not negatives, so you can only increase SP/min with implants at start. The only risk is buying one you don’t actually use and lose the ISK.

EDIT too much space to add examples.

1 Like

:rofl:
Don’t hurt your back moving those goalposts.

4 Likes

First season was good. Even though it was the same character, the protag for season 2 was written a lot worse. It’s like they wanted to change both the actor and the backround.

While it is not min-maxed for a specific direction: remove the 2 points from charisma and add 1 point to intelligence and 1 point to perception. It gives you a leg up as there are a lot of different attribute combinations when skilling in your early weeks in EVE.

Also: don’t blindly fixate on getting a skill up to 5 before starting on the next. Example: you are struggeling with capacitor. Instead of 1st skilling the recharge rate to 5 before training the skill to increase capacitor amount; get both skills to 4 in roughly the same time it would take to train on of those skills to lvl 5.

2 Likes

I put all my points in CHARISMA!

:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

3 Likes

Absolutely no doubt about that. :laughing:

2 Likes

Are you implying she lacks intelligence, perception, willpower and memory? :thinking:

:smiling_face_with_horns:

1 Like

No problem a Neutron Blaster II and enough Charisma can’t solve. :clinking_beer_mugs:

So the other attributes seem to be just right. :grin:

2 Likes

You did some math, I see. The Daily Alpha Injector can only be used by Alpha Clones once per day. Therefore, over a year you can gain: 50,000 × 365 = 18,250,000 SP.

Just imagine the amount of daily micromanagement required to reach that amount of SP. What’s the current skill cap for Alpha Clones: 15M SP or 20M SP? Attributes are mainly valuable for Omega capsuleers with at least 50M SP. In other words, you generally don’t want to use Skill Injectors once your capsuleer surpasses 50M SP. The ISK delta between passive Omega training and Daily Alpha Injectors is directly proportional to the amount of “work” you need to perform each month or year with Daily Alpha Injectors.

Important! Optimal skill training means your character’s attributes are set to their maximum possible values, based on the primary and secondary attributes of the skills being trained. Every skill you train in a month or a year period should match this attribute optimisation for the best results.

I also did some math about these attributes years ago, trying to figure out the most optimal yearly skill plan for my capsuleer. Long story short:

  • With an unoptimised attribute set, you’ll get around 15.6M SP per year.
  • With an optimised attribute set with +5 implants, you’ll get roughly 24M SP per year.

The difference between the two is 8.4M SP, which is equal to about 155 days (or 5 months!) of skill training based on the known formula:

[Omega Clones] SP/minute = Primary_Attribute + 0.50 × Secondary_Attribute

To clearly show the difference between these attribute sets, it’s best to use graphs (time/SP). The gap becomes easy to see over the course of a year of skill training:

  • Blue–green: 19.5M – 15.6M = 3.9M SP
  • Yellow–green: 23.5M – 15.6M = 7.9M SP
  • Red–green: 28.6M – 15.6M = 13M SP

The learning skill plan of an average capsuleer will be between the blue and yellow line.


Conclusion:
For fast or short-term results, Skill Injectors are the best option. But for long-term results, attributes are the way to go. The more SP your capsuleer has, the more they should rely on attributes.

Indeed, attributes played a much more important role before Skill Injectors were introduced. Now they serve more of a supportive role for end-game capsuleers who are mainly training level V skills or farming SP for Skill Extractors.

There’s still a lot that can be done to optimize attributes. First of all, I would reduce the remap plan to a 6-month or even 4-month period.

That’s actually a very good question. First of all, for all players who have access to Large Skill Injectors, I recommend using them without worrying about diminishing returns until you reach a total of 5M SP. After that point, you can focus on gaining SP through various reward programs, events, and options available in the game (including the Air Career Program and the ‘Invite a Friend’ link). These actions can significantly shift your initial skill training plan.


First Year of Training
I suggest remapping your attributes as follows:

  • Intelligence (Primary): 24
  • Perception (Secondary): 24
  • Use +3 or +4 Intelligence and Perception implants.
  • You don’t need all five implant types. Optionally, you can also use a +3 or +4 Memory implant to further support your skill plan.
  • Willpower and Charisma implants are generally more relevant for end-game capsuleers.

This attribute configuration will allow you to optimise your basic skills like Navigation, Engineering, Shields, and Armor, while also letting you jump into small ships for both PvE and PvP. The training time for small ships and small weapons isn’t very long, so you can start using them fairly quickly. Therefore, you just can drop randomly these kind of skills into your training queue and train all of them equally fast.

Second Year of Training
Remap your attributes according to your training focus:

  1. Piloting Focus:
  • Perception (Primary): 27
  • Willpower (Secondary): 21
  • This setup helps you train critical ship and weapon skills to Level V much faster.
  1. Management Focus:
  • Intelligence (Primary): 27
  • Memory (Secondary): 21
  • This is ideal for training exploration, navigation, mining, industry, science, social, neural, and rigging skills to Level IV or V efficiently.

Also add implants and a booster to them for a better effect.

1 Like

Well of course you did… After all who needs intelligence or perception when raw charisma with a smile will get you through anything… :laughing:

IRL you’re 62, live alone and the toxoplasmosis keeps you working tirelessly for them six cats, with regular breaks to post about, but not actually play, EvE.

1 Like

I love my kitties!!

:cat: :tiger: :black_cat:

2 Likes

As do I, I have three, a grey and white male floof cat that my wife wanted (it’s far too hairy and never lets anyone brush, nightmare, brings in slugs and all sorts as passengers), a brown and black short hair tabby female who just hates us, and a ginger bitey nommy fecker who is my favourite.

That’s about as close to an overshare I’ll ever get here.