CCP can get rid of attributes but keep learning implants

Communications Center Skill Discussion
1

Delete attributes, give everyone the same base learning rate (based on Alpha vs Omega). CCP has talked about this before but they’re worried about LP and stuffs.

Well they could still keep implants, just change the implants to work on skill groupings instead of attributes.

So an Ocular filter would be +(percentage) increase to the learning of Spaceship Command, Gunnery, Missiles, etcetc and a lower +(percentage) increase to the learning of (whatever it’s the secondary attribute of).

Or you could just remove the old implants and make new ones for the sake of simplicity.

Would have to change the learning stats on the fancy implants tho.

2

Why? What is the purpose?

3

EVE Online has a complexity problem, and CCP is on record stating that the complexity hurts new player retention, and that they want to reduce unnecessary complexity. Attributes, + skill trees, + learning implants = 3 layers of complexity. There used to be 4 layers of complexity - clone grade. They removed clone grades precisely because it was unnecessary and added a barrier to PvP for many players.

Removing attributes would remove a further layer of unnecessary complexity since they’re not a requisite of the skill training system. Current implants can just be reworked to still provide bonuses to individual skill trees or skill tree groupings, so LP/implant market isn’t affected (which is a huge thing holding CCP back from removing attributes, which they’ve stated they’d like to do.)

4

The Complexity issue is not directly related to this.

The most effective way of significant combating the complexity of eve can be done by a design pass on the ship equipment process. Now granted, the SP has some effect on this, it does not directly relate to the complexity itself, as much as it relates to the access of complexity.

Iv been trying to combat these sorts of things with suggestions made to revamp the ship equipment system and homogenize some of the modular systems.

For example, If all ewar works in a similar point system like Warp scram, and Stabs do, you could effectively allow any type of ewar to easily be countered by 1 type of modular. This would mean that you could most easily deal with the complexity of the game by picking up a singular module.

This also means that builds by default should include more types of modules, which is a really good thing as it increases the player - gui interaction rate, one of the weaker spots eve has in its combat system (simply put if you push buttons more, you have more fun).

What should happen is we should go off only high/low/medium slots and start having things like role specific slots, and specialized slots that force only specific module types. I’ll give an example of this

lets say we have a recon that specializes in turret disruption. If we shift the bonus over to straight ewar, we allow the player to effectively pick up many more options because the “role specific module slot” will force ewar for recon class, this will enable the recons to use many different builds increasing depth (the better, more desirable cousin of complexity) while reducing complexity itself.

Further, because all ewar is then countered by one module type, and that module type may be unspecific for all but counter - ewar roled ships, you will empower counter ewar more effectively.

right now its sorta like “if you take this stab you dont counter disruptor, but you do warp scram” or the other way around. And that is to much complexity for the game.

lastly,
To define this in a more simplistic way:

Depth is the instant understanding of a choice, where complexity is ambigious by nature and is often hiding a broken way of doing something.

Examples
Depth: +10% attack power
Complexity: + 10% attack power for every point of agility
Agility: also increases your armor and attack power by 1 for each point of agility.

End result

1000 agility gives you 1000 attack power, 1000 armor and an additional 100 attack power for having 1k agility.

IF eve wants to get rid of complexity it needs to shift to doing things like more “hand holding” For ship builds, or even forcing the ship to have only specific types of builds with some varying limitation to defensive / offensive options (ie passive/active tanking etc)

1 Like
5

As for attributes

Personally i’d

  • Remove implants

  • Remove extractors

  • Remove injectors

  • Create boosters that increase sp generation by x amount for x days

    • Example: Increases your sp generation by 5 times for 30 days for $9.99

  • Add bonus skill points for completing missions (to help give them some attraction)

  • Remove the omega bonus training rate

  • Make omega status grant you the ability to train all three characters at once

  • Reduce the requirements for ships by reducing the requirement of tech two ship hulls from level 5 to level 4

6

Schew… good hing CCP is in charge and not you

5 Likes
7

Hey Naari, where were you? I tried voting for you for CSM but I couldnt find your name. You had my vote, but now i feel betrayed. Betrayed by you.

3 Likes
8

You will get over it.

I was not eligible for the active subscription time-frame requirement. Off by two weeks, sadly.

9

I doubt I ever will. Unless you run next year. Will you?

1 Like
10

I wouldn’t mind not having attributes. Seeing as the stats are changeable, it feels an unnecessary gimmick that only exists to make training harder to ‘schedule’.

2 Likes
11

ACtually in the old days we has skills we trained that significantly increased the attributes.

we had a skill that grants 5, then an advanced skill that granted another 5 (1 per level for each attribute).

The result would be training all those skills the first month, then by month 6 you were 3 months a head of the one who did not. this was added later, when those were removed.

12

I remember those days. So that was another layer of complexity that was happily removed. New Eden groaned a sigh of relief.

13

I Actually liked those, though i feel like there should be exclusive skills in eve. For example, you could train int buffs, but not perception.

14

This is a very very awful idea.

2 Likes
15

No its not. Also if your gona post opinion, post why you think that way.

16

What you are advocating is less choice in a game where “choices have consequences.” Why don’t you start by explaining why Eve needs to be “less complex?”

17

Talk to CCP about it.

18

Meant to reply to the guy above me

19

He has a point. Even ccp wants to reduce it. Its clear there is too much.

1 Like
20

Still pointless… As it stands, each skill has associated Attributes that influence the passive SP gain. But that has ZERO influence over Skill Injection. If you queue up a Mining skill, and a Diplomacy skill, and you hit the Injector, they’ll both gain just as much regardless of how you’re Mapped or what Implants you have. So CCP has already demonstrated that Attributes have no bearing on Liquid SP being squirted into your brain.

Since it’s evident that Liquid SP has no preferences, then we should stop pretending like this is D&D, and just scrap the idea of Attributes in general. Perception, Charisma… these words are thrown around in RPGs when your meatsuit matters. But we’re just Brains in Jars. The meatsuits are pointless, except for dressing up with expensive clothes.

Implant groups are fine. Slaves give you HP, Snakes make you faster, etc. We don’t need an extra +1 to Intelligence or whatever. Just let people fit the Implants that benefit their ships.

You had me going there… some of those points were really good. But then I saw these, and realized you’re just retarded.

Omega getting more SP is to entice players to stop being freaking street corner beggars asking for free handouts. It’s to encourage people to pay for the game so the company can make some money. Alphas need to have a lot of their freebies taken away. Omegas need to shine above Alphas, so players will say “Wow, I gotta get me some of that Omega status”.

2 Likes