As a corp we where discussing this as well, and the potential to make them more engage-able, without removing their use… again.
We more or less settled on “It would probably be cool to see to have them retain their -self sustainability and damage- but limit their maneuverability and flexibility.”
We boiled this down to “maybe drop the MJD boni” and thought of a fun thing to add maybe for marauders only.
We criticized that a, for example, Paladin can sit with 500k or more EHP in field (buffer) siege… get 900 and under fire has all the time in the world to de-siege and get fax reps.
An Idea we had was maybe to 1/2 their resists obtained (from modules) when not sieged… making them more squishy and attack-able outside of siege and harder to catch reps, while reducing overall EHP outside of siege.
The idea was to “not punish” marauders doing bastioned-self sustain stuff and have them basically work as mini dreads.
Also, we argued we could reduce the max damage outside of siege, but keep it the same in siege. Tldr, have the role bonus from the Marauder also only apply in Siege (on the Bastion module)
This would force Marauder “fleets” to siege up to make use of their incredible damage potential, which makes em not logi-able outside of self sustain. In fleets, you have a big buffer, have to de-bastion and possibly get still killed because low resistences during fax reps. But while in baby dread form on an ESS grid, or general small scale grid, still retain their advantages, and provide the large damage boni and survivability. (While still be kill-able with a few neuts)
We also maybe thought of “don’t let tank buffer implants apply” - to not have them gain TOO much EHP… but eh…
Either way, maybe those are thoughts you and the rest of the team can use as feedback and potentially think about it.
Please post this on the Launcher so that people actually find this! I had to overhear someone in my corp talk about a dev blog posted on reddit to learn about this official announcement because I could not see anything on the launcher.
On the topic of balance:
Why do you hurt the Zealot even more? It is already the most useless and most underused HAC and now it has the worst lock range of all HACs. Even the Deimos has more lock range although the primary weapon system used on the Deimos has an engagement range of 1km. This makes no sense.
Not to mention that the Zealot needs help, not more nerfs. It needs help to fit its weapons and tank without fitting rigs, and it needs help to not be a sitting thanksgiving turkey waiting to be slaughtered.
On that note: Especially the Lach and Huginn really struggle with armor tanks. May I point you to this for further consideration to help these 2 to actually be useful in armor fleets:
now every race have HACs that use 2 different weapon systems. Amarr have a lot of drone/missile ships. Sacrilage, Vengence, Arbitrator, Curse, Dragoon, etc.
Depends on what you’re trying to do. You could use a missile computer instead of rigs. You get a shield boost bonus now, so you can squeeze XLASB+RLML on which is essentially 2 LSE’s in one slot. You don’t need dual hydraulics unless you are trying to recreate the old cerb at which point you are paying for it by losing tank as intended.
If you want a range bonused RLML platform, then use the Nosprey/Orthrus. The cerb with ADCU, T2 resists and all kinds of other “assault” minded bonuses shouldn’t be the best option to kill frigates. It should be the good option for punching up or fighting against cruisers. At least thats how I view it. You don’t need a 70k, 600 dps, 100km range cruiser to whack frigs.
The balancing point is that the Sac has 5 lows, the Muninn has 6. The Muninn can get extra resists/damage from the extra low compared to the Sac. Not to mention the absolutely bonkers EM/Thermal resistance an armor muninn can get.
Seems good but isn’t Cerberus active shield bonus and Muninns passive shield/armor resistance bonus kinda swapped? Caldari and Amarr always had passive resistance while Gallente and Minmatar had active ones.
Not necessarily. The Hawk also has a shield boost bonus (and golem if we want to split hairs).
The Muninn is built by Boundless Creations, which are predominantly Minmatar’s armor focused group (but they do have outliers like the sleip). So them building an armor/shield resist ship isn’t too out of character. Minmatar’s flavor has always been flexible tanks, which a split tank bonus matches up with.
You also have the svipul, which provides split shield/armor resistances when in tank mode. So this isn’t the first time minmatar have gotten dual bonuses. Its just the first ship with it as a dedicated trait. You also have the claymore which has dedicated shield resistances.
Yep, you are right. Totally forgot those. But still in my opinion Muninn would have been a lot better if it got its slot layout swapped from predominantly low to mid together with active shield bonus. T2 minmatar double armor hole is no bueno.
the armor resist bonus helped quite a bit in regards to the resist holes. And having 6 lows helps fill it out better.
5 mids with t2 minmatar resists and a resist bonus would likely have been way too strong and would have been stronger than dedicated shield ships like the Eagle. 5/5/5 might have been a fun slot layout, but i’m actually happier with the 5/4/6 because i’ve always wanted to make T2 minmatar armor work and this looks like the best option we have.
Will the ship line that the Muninn is derived from (Rupture primarily, though it fits into a whole line of Minmatar ships) be adjusted to missiles as well, or will the fiction around the Muninn be changed to define it as a break from traditional projectile weapons for the Minmatar empire?
If the latter, how is that going to affect skill training (given that today once you train the relevant projectile weapons, most of that whole tree opens up nicely)? For those of us who fly the Muninn today as a projectile ship, will we be expected now to spend additional time to train missiles in order to fly it successfully (not an issue for myself personally, I can shoot most missile types effectively already, but I know of people who simply don’t have missiles trained).
Hi Aurora! Keep doing you work, thanks for those changes, but I have some questions about stats of couple ships which I don’t like.
Sacrilege
Maximum Targeting Range reduced from 70,000 to 65,000
Missile Maximum Velocity bonus reduced from 10% to 7.5%
Armor resistance bonus increased from 4% to 5%
The main problem of SAC is lack of dps, even HAML Cerb on non-scourge missiles may to have 750dps.
SAC have like 500 dps on HAML and 150 from 5 CN Vesps.
Here is 2 ways to boost SAC:
Take away 1 high slot(utility) and give + low slot for additional ballistic.
OR
Reduce drone bandwidth from 50 to 25, and give 9% damage bonus from Amarr Cruiser.
I want to see SAC in small scale
Zealot
Maximum Targeting Range reduced from 75,000 to 55,000
Small targeting range adjustment to keep the zealot in the same range band as other HACs
Zealot is really bad ATM, the main problem is slots, Zealot in player perspective is kite ship, BUT now peoples using hard tackle frigs everywhere, and zealot can’t play vs them because lack of web in mid slots
Swap - 1 low on +1 mid
Typhoon Fleet Issue
Added Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity
Added Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile turret tracking
TFI is really good for brawl fights, the torp damage and double utility is strong synergy.
But some players want to see Heavy Rapids on TFI, but Heavy Rapids is really bad without explosion velocity bonus, unfortunately TFI now can’t apply full faction missiles damage in MWD Nano cruisers.
5% bonus to Heavy Missiles explosion velocity
For TFI this buff will be really important, because this bonus will give to this ship new life, Typhoon has alternatives, and because of this, he is useless
no battleship gets application bonuses to RHML. Just like no cruiser gets application bonuses to RLML.
Add a target painter, rigor rig and/or missile computers to get the application needed. Most small gang typhoons use 1-2 rigor rigs to get RHML to apply well. The T1 typhoon’s explosion velocity bonus also only applies to cruise/torpedo.
You right, but cruisers doesn’t suffer due to lack of missile explosion velocity bonus for RLML.
But for BS it’s really horribly to shoot in some targets like cruisers/destroyers/frigs, in small-scale perspective, I rather will use rail BNI, which are much better, because he doesn’t have 35s reload time, and he have the same dps in cruisers
Battleships aren’t meant to hard counter destroyers, frigs and cruisers. They are meant to hard counter BC’s and other battleships. As such, expect to fit application mods to get the most out of battleship sized missile weapon systems.
Barghest, T1 phoon, TyFI and occasionally T1 raven all kite with RHML just fine with the appropriate application mods or supporting ships for application.
When a ship has a better alternative, that ship becomes useless. Even if you look at them differently because of the price. If a ship can’t do the basic things in the game, no one needs it.
TFI needs this buff:)
