You were claiming you hadn’t listed them.
Also set your EHP profile to Blasters rather than Omni.
Not claiming it’s going to dramatically shift your EHP, but it is going to make a difference.
And my bet is it makes enough of a difference for high skill ABC gankers to not need 20. Assuming they use smart mechanics anyway. I don’t have a fitting program installed on this computer to check exact maths on these things, have to go by memory from when I last did maths on these things.
Now sure, if they limit themselves to alpha catalysts, that number is going to be over 20.
If you can find them on the killmail I linked. The killmail doesn’t include the armour command bursts, where I normally have them fit.
I’ll take your bet. How much you waging?
Do the calculation yourself. There are some situations where it is upwards of 20 gank ships. Not all situations, and I’ve never claimed that. But there are some situations where it is upwards of 20 gank ships to kill a fully tanked freighter.
So many people still talk about the fact that 1 person can bump forever. No he can’t. Just log off and you’re safe.
Frankly, if people wouldn’t be carrying billions on top of billions of cargo in their anti-tanked ships, the bumping wouldn’t be as common as it is today. This is not CCP’s fault that it’s happening, it’s your own goddamn fault. So if you guys wan’t change, start obeying the code.
It really is as simple as that.
Fixed it for you:
Stage 1— player undocks with blingy ship and decides to fly solo
Stage 2— a few seconds on both sides, he is either bumped or in warp.
Stage 3-- does not really exist for the target, extends until the server shuts down for the bumper.
This is why separating it out to steps is just lol dumb, the victim took the first step when he decided to fly alone.
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Sorry, no.
Stage 1 is irrespective of being webbed or not. Both Sides have seconds to react, and it ends when the freighter is either bumped or in warp. That can be as long as the maximum time it takes a freighter to align, or as short as the few seconds it takes to web-warp and/or bump the freighter.
This is why your argument is LOL Dumb. The Ganker made his first mistake when he decided to bump without his Gank Fleet for 15 minutes before bothering to log in and get the job done.
If it’s reasonable that the freighter have help on hand at all times and get his timing down perfect, then it’s reasonable for the supposedly highly organized gankers to have their gank fleet ready to go at all times rather than logged off eating dinner of off missioning.
No one is talking about making Stage 2 last only a few seconds. A minute or 2 is more than ample to get prepared players out of station, warped and on grid to gank.
The counter to being engaged should never be ‘stop playing’. This is why we have engagement timers on actual tackle and fighting. This whole thing is as asinine as it can get with gankers trying to defend an utterly absurd position. It’s cloaks all over again, except for once Merin actually makes sense.
Except that’s not the only situation. Look at these 2 ganks in Jita from today:
16:17 and 16:39.
From 16:17 to 16:32, a number of characters on both ganks couldn’t even undock in a ship and 7 minutes later they hit the second ship.
That was nothing to do with not having the fleet logged in. The game mechanics prevent them using the same fleet to hit a second target in less than 15 minutes.
Found that problem, solution: Use a player run station (Perimeter) with tethering.
I’m curious why you think the gankers should be able to stack up multiple juicy targets in such a small time frame with no risk of their prey escaping?
Perhaps, as part of their planning and organization they could move out from Jita, just like all the PvE guys wanting to do missions are advised when they complain of people coming into their missions and stealing damsels and such. Perhaps missing out on targets is part of the price you pay for hunting in such a populated and target rich environment? Did I miss the memo where gankers were such an exalted and privileged class of people that everything should be halted to wait for them to finish digesting their last meal before being allowed to progress to the next? The entire point has been you are either ready to gank, or you are not… Just as the hauler is either ready to go, or not.
I’d also like to point out that your goalposts have shifted somewhat.
Your “Webbing Friend” has transformed into a set of Slaves, a trained command ship pilot, supporting command implants, a Command Ship with appropriate command bursts and a sub one second lock time with overheated webs with the crack timing to have the freighter into warp within 3 seconds of jumping.
Does that come with a prostitute and an easy government job?
If I’m entitled to choose how I play the game, they are entitled to choose how they play. My playstyle isn’t more important then theirs.
Outside that basic equality, I don’t care what they are able to do. I care about what I’m able to do, which is not be a target and not get caught by them.
If I take responsibility for what I’m doing, then I can have my fun and they can go have theirs and no matter what, CCP isn’t needed to intervene in my favour or theirs.
However, I’m also curious why you think players that don’t even use the current game mechanics, deserve even more assistance? Both of those ganks were jump Freighters for example. Why do they need even more help when they could have jumped away if they were prepared?
I don’t believe you have been paying attention.
Stage 1 is fine. Both sides have a few seconds to respond.
Stage 2 is not. Either be prepared to gank, or don’t. Just like the target is prepared to get away, or not.
If it’s really not 1v1 then there is no problem getting the gankers on grid in a couple of minutes. They are either ready, or they are not.
There are no separate stages. I get it that you think there are and that’s fine. We differ in view. The bump ship is already part of a larger process, involving multiple characters/players, but I get that you don’t want to see it that way. It’s fine. We have different views.
However, why do those jump Freighters deserve even more assistance to escape, when they could have already jumped away if prepared? Why do the unprepared players deserve even more help when they don’t even use what’s available now?
The “prey” has made themselves easy to kill.
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Because it’s not reasonable to demand that a target have his fleet at all times present and ready to go with crack timing and a few billion of extras, but his opposition can phone it in with a solo bumper and wait for the rest of the fleet to show up when they feel like it.
If the freighter escort could show up late to the party and stop the bumping when ever they felt like it, we would be back to a level playing field. But that’s not the case here, and you know it. It’s why you are so dead set on not acknowledging where the problem is.
As I suggested above, if in addition to webbing (the instant solution) there was a module the escort could target the freighter with that after a spool up allowed a targeted ship to enter warp without aligning, you would have a balanced situation. No backup on either side, no explosion, escape, or loot. Both sides have backup, contest of luck, skill and preparation. Only one side has backup, they win.
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No one demands anything, but again you are being overly dramatic.
Crack timing is rubbish. Even ready to go all the time is rubbish. I use webs on every haul and most gates there are no bumpers at all (webs provide efficiency to reduce hauling time and increased a ISK/hr), and on the gates where there are, crack timing isn’t even needed, because it’s impossible for any bumper to know exactly where a freighter will spawn, so the distance even to get to the freighter adds more time for them, and allows more time not to need “crack timing”. It’s a fallacy you are pushing.
With effective webs, it is trivially easy to avoid being bumped.
Is the risk 0? No. It isn’t a 0 risk game (and before you throw that it’s 0 risk for the bumper…it isn’t. Go shoot them and kill them if you want them gone).
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Happy to shoot bumpers right around the time they get flagged as criminal for tackling in high sec space. Concord should not be protecting people initiating fights.
Which will spark a flood of mouth breathers pointing out that bumping isn’t illegal… but neither should protecting yourself from a gank be illegal. He is either part of a gank, or he is not.
Crack timing isn’t rubbish. The bumper can’t know where the freighter comes out, but neither can the escort. You are raising the value of that escort from some dude with a web to highly skilled guy(s) with hundreds of millions if not billions in implants, expensive hulls, overheated or faction webs, etc…
And it still leaves you with he either had it in place at the time of the jump, or he didn’t and lost with no chance of recovery, while the ganker either got the bump in at the time of the jump, or can chase down the ship and try again on the other side of warp, and if he ever gets lucky once with the bump the rest of the gank has literally until the bumper gets bored or the server shuts down to complete the gank.
Some dude with a web isn’t effective webs.
Effective webs are a Rapier, Huggin or Loki with faction webs, and it isn’t billions of ISK.
It’s a choice we all have.
You don’t seem to have a problem that it takes the bumper, plus the scanning scouts, plus the gankers, all with their separate subscriptions, high skills to even keep the number of characters to a minimum and the ships. That cost you don’t care about.
Only the cost for the “good guys” is important.
You do apply a double standard, despite claiming earlier that you don’t.
Scout… literally a brand new character, with maybe a day or 2 training to be as effective as he’s ever going to get. You run into diminishing results pretty fast when you are a (maybe) passive targeter and a cargo scanner. Not even part of the engagement we are discussing, his job was complete 2 jumps back.
Bumper, usually a Macharial pilot with good navigation skills. The hull is pricey, but that’s as far as it needs to go. Let’s not pretend this is more than it is. Diminishing returns is a thing. Top of the line is a Mach with some props.
Gank Fleet, average about a dozen guys in ABC’s, also not present for the bumping until they finish dinner and log in.
I’m not discounting their cost, but I’m also not inflating it.
On the other side you are advocating the Freighter running slaves with an escort running Command Links along with a 57km web as the minimal reasonable counter to bumping.
Pretty sure just the freighter itself cost more than the entire gank, but if not the escort certainly pushed it over the edge, never mind the overhead of collateral. What’s a full set of slaves going for these days?
I’m willing to discuss reasonable timeframes to get the job done or admit defeat, but it’s certainly not over 5 minutes at the very most laughable outside.
Jesus you really are a delicate little creature aren’t you.
Bumpers do not typically bump a freighter that is not:
- Overloaded in terms of cargo value.
- Has a tank.
- Has a webber.
Yes the webber might fail, but if you follow 1 and 2 chances are the bumper is not even looking for you. He is looking for the moron with 14 billion ISK in his cargo hold.
Heck…have your buddy scan freighters on the Jita undock and when you see a whale undock…follow the whale. As everyone is killing the whale slide right on through.
Ya’ lazy bugger.
This.
Mike, et. al. are all white knighting for morons.
Here is Mike’s argument:
“Okay, so yeah…that guy was a moron. He put 10 billion ISK worth of cargo in his freighter. Still he should have greater chance of not having to face the downside risk he has assumed! Think of the morons!”
Exactly. Zkill now has a gank marker you can use it to see all ships that are ganked. You can scroll through and look at ganked freighters and JFs…and guess what they are almost always wildly overloaded.
- Don’t overload your freighter.
- Tank your freighter.
- Have a buddy with webs.
Oh…you don’t like 3? A player should be able to fly in a lumbering slow moving ship without any form of help at all? 
Nope.
Nevyn…buddy please.
A bumper is going to have a scout who is scanning ships looking for whales. The bumper is not going to bump without a gank fleet. The bumper is probably not going to gank without a noob ship to put a limited engagement timer on the freighter if necessary. The bumper is likely going to have someone in a ship to scoop the loot.
The bumper is not in a 1-v-1 encounter. The encounter has been lopsided from the very second dumbass put 8.75 billion ISK in his anti-tanked obelisk.
Dear Mike…when does a gank start? When the idiot player puts 12 billion ISK into his anti-tanked charon.
No you aren’t. You completely do not understand when a gank starts. It starts in a station…with an idiot.
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What’s the subscription cost each month?
How much ISK would that be worth each and every month, just in subscrption, not even including the subscription time taken to get to the skills needed.
You are totally dismissing the gank side cost. If you didn’t, you’d see that’s way more than the cost I pay to keep my freighter safe.
You are saying it’s fine for one side to be paying, but not ok for the other side. It’s a double standard.
Let them all just play how they choose. What’s good for one side is equally ok for the other.
And a set of high grade slave purchased once off about 4 years ago was about 3 billion from memory. Never lost them and don’t have to pay for them every month. They also aren’t absolutely necessary. I just like to stack the deck as much as I can in my favour.
Also, if you are going to go on about costs, a good bump Mach is pretty expensive also:
The more the argument is based on cost, the less even it looks, but not in to the disadvantage of freighter pilots.
Overall though, cost is a poor argument. We all make choices and there are some ways to reduce risk for freighter pilots that cost ISK. They aren’t the only ways.