I agree that pumping in money like a slot machine is not how you play EVE, but…
The Triglavian Lore ships are a way to shake the snow-globe & bring in new stuff. The Kiki is ridiculously powerful, for example, but…
They are the precursors. Lore-wise they’re gonna have high-end tech.
What is dismaying, as a player, is how newbs have to get into Triglavian or they are kinda dead. Your first Ass Frigate just falls apart when a Kiki is around, so players might need to consider ‘content denial’ if the enemy is Triglavian. Or just Bozon them.
The future? The snow will settle in new ways, and… The Drifters have already fled the Triglavians.
So you may see Drifter Tech and captured Triglavian Tech being used by the Empires to deal with Triglavian & Drifter raids.
The Drifters recycle implants. That alone would help hugely if that tech made it into Empire hands.
But yes, I agree that at present it feels like someone is trying to force me to pump money in like a slot machine. And that is not how I play EVE.
It’s not over, but that snowglobe has definitely been shaken.
The Kiki is unsustainable. 1 Kiki can shred an opposing small-gangs’ tackle, so that the rest of the Kiki’s gang can run if need be. Which means less shiny ships dying, in plain english.
You can drive off defenders in their own back yard with a couple of Kiki’s, and that is VERY powerful ( some say broken ).
Alpha-ing something as fast as a Frigate, that punches like a Cruiser, is… Not easy.
But, as I said above, there may be new tech coming to restore the balance. For now dodge the Triglavians as best you can.
Only if they’re retarded, and feed in single file. Two is a lot tougher, but still doable if you use assault frigs instead of ceptors for tackle.
Fitting a single module (warp scrambler) is the answer to the kiki. Scram it, and it’s deleted. Sort of like evry other 5k+ kitey ship that volleys through light drones like they’re made of paper. Calls to mind the garmur (a comparable garmur fit will be similar in price too), and even a properly fit condor can pull it off. The kiki suffers from a severe lack of hit points, and if it’s prop is shut down its game over without question. A kiki pilot can be killed by a n00b throwing t1 frigs or dessies at him. Kikimora | Kamuixx | Killmail | zKillboard All it takes is 1 scram.
You want to screw over the drek or leshak? Jams, and/or damps will leave them sitting there unable to return fire as you melt them. At the very least it causes them to have to re-target AND start spooling again. They are strong ships, maybe even a little too strong. There are, however, already counters that work very well in place.
This is why i said this entire concept is just bs. There are already ways to deal with these ships and their funky mechanics, use them.
Anyone that is arguing that Precursor ship is out of balance clearly doesn’t realize that is if you bling the hell out of them. A T2 moduled precursor is no more scary than other faction ships, an likely costs 50% more. People continually keep stating that they are beasts, but that is because it’s sporting deadspace modules and other bling. You can’t compare 10 2m frigates to a 700 mill destroyer.
Precursor weaknesses:
Range
Fitting if you aren’t extremely skilled/implanted
Crap for capacitor
Inability to effectly engage multiple targets
In PvE spool goes to waste
Cost
I’m all for them getting a nerf, if they bring the cost down 75%.
The Kiki and the Drek are flatly better than all of their contemporaries. Both ships are best or second best in nearly every stat in their weight class.
They do not have a weakness of range, the Kiki is only outranged by the cormorant and corax.
They do not have a weakness of fitting, there is just an effort to over fit them in a way only they can get away with.
They do not have a weakness of cap, they, in fact, have the best cap and among the lowest cap demand in their weight classes. As an aside: all CBCs have the same cap regen of 16.7, the Drek gets 17.2.
What does that even mean in your head?
It does go to waste if you are shooting belt rats.
Cost as a limiting factor does not scale cleanly, and for what they are they are extremely cheap.
Are they competing directly against these ships in high sec? Really? Because Concord will melt these expensive toys before they’re even up to full ramp. People simply do not feed trig ships to Concord regularly. For that they use t1 dessies or battlecruisers. Mostly catalyst, talos, and tornado. Did you miss the 1v1 kiki vs thrasher(thats t1 btw) I linked? In high sec they are not a problem, and in low/null they’re only a problem if you didn’t bring or don’t know how to use the proper tools that shut them down. I guess my question is why do you think they break high sec, and pvp in general? I suspect the people crying the most would’ve died just as easily to anything really in the hands of someone who knows exactly how to squeeze every ounce out of the ship they’re flying especially against “legions of noobs, in half skilled t1 boats”. Perhaps it’s more of a learning curve thing than Zomg these ships broke the game?
They aren’t dying to them at all. They simply aren’t pvp’ing… which is worse.
We need to down ship in highsec to where a two week old player can fight and have a hope in hell of winning (in something a 2 week old player can afford).
In highsec? What about travel? To get to my chosen area of lowsec from null I have to travel through highsec. What about sales? You would force people to buy their fittings in a hub and cart them to where they find a hull for sale? That sounds more game breaking to me honestly. These are not capital ships, they are not on the same level. They do not have the same skill investment. They do not have the same isk investment. They are not as powerful. Not to mention, true noobs shouldn’t really be picking fights in highsec anyway. Don’t you think?
Highsec pvp is called ganking, and noobs are usually the victims no matter how you look at it. This would do nothing to encourage noobs to fight in highsec, and why would you want that anyway? That is not really what highsec is for. It is also actively discouraged by Concord. Endgame hardware, are you kidding? Noobs can farm calm abyssal sites in t1 frigs, damavik and kiki are not endgame hulls by any means. Nothing stopping them from accessing those hulls, and all from the safety of highsec. The sp barrier is so low it’s easier to get into them than any t2 frig or dessie in the game. The books, bpcs, and trig mins are free if you run the low end sites. It’s actually quite easy to acquire them. I don’t see the problem, and I don’t understand your stated goal. If you want them to engage in pvp encourage them to go into low/null sec.
Edit
Just got a leshak bpc and the book in the same calm. Endgame my ass.
I see no coherent argument that these ships aren’t endgame hardware.
Also, I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about people who fight.
Fighting people who fly pirate faction boats, t3s, and Triglavian boats have such an advantage over new players that it deters fights.
I think that should stop, new players are Eve’s path to salvation.
We need new players to PvP… so why not remove ships from the noob space that violate the first rule of Eve for new players (that rule being): “don’t fly what you cannot afford to lose”.
Wealthy endgame players parading around in these boats in highsec doesn’t positively affect retention… but fighters using them deters new players from fighting.
Ganking is the only paradigm you have for PVP because I’m right… everyone is docked up and afraid to fight.
Ganking didn’t used to be common. But as the power disparity between pvp’ers and non pvp’ers became extreme… other forms of PvP became scarce. We are a couple fun scuffle mechanics and a ship-down away from having the pandemonium of yesteryear. But first we must push out the super ships noobs can not afford… then the fighting can start and we can make eve fun for noobs again.
I’m a bit confused one what PvP you are referring to. Your only options for Hgihsec PvP are ganking, corp vs corp wars with structures, and Faction Warfare. Which of these exactly are Precursors and T3s so powerful that new players are deterred from them?
Pretty much every fight in eve is N+1 fights winning. I’d argue these ships give new players the chance to actually win a fight against a alpha spam catalyst gank fleet.
On a side note, if someone lives in highsec, they are likely risk adverse in the first place. if they want a fight they will go to LS, Null, or WHs. They don’t engage in fights in Highsec because they don’t want to.
N+1 and the super ship mentality are the same thing. It’s artless, but it plays well to the average player who wants an advantage without any real effort.
Piloting skill is almost a lost art. I pine for the days when small fights were a common test of pilot skills and wills.
In the days of can flipping and cheap wardecs, this was a big piece of the game. I think to get PvP in highsec (which used to be the capital of casual fights) we need to level the playing field and introduce some new scuffle mechanics.