You completely missed the point of what I was saying.
I wasn’t talking about the ISK ROI, mechanics can and will be gamed if they can. In fact I said go take down that whale, there just sould be a penalty that interupts your inhabitation of that sucurity space if the space is ment to be secure, but with that said I did start out by saying “Hi Sec” was a nomeculture failure as you quoted:
Topic for another conversation: but maybe there are too many resources in Hi Sec then? Maybe it shouldn’t be sustainable to never leave Hi Sec unless you are happy with a Alpha frigate…
I have to disagree there, I think the mechanics are interrelated. See above…
Not to change the topic, but I agree. I was surprised to read/hear how much ISK some people make in Hi Sec.
I think it is a psychological problem.
The current game ideology is: “If you undock be prepared to die.”
The problem I see is (for some) players, are not given a choice. So the outcome is unpalatable. If they flew around in Hi Sec starving for ISK. When ready they would choose to take a risk and then accept the outcome.
I hear what you are saying and I am not advocating for “No Ganking” (*edit & I know this wasn’t directed at me), but gamers game things by default. To play out your suggestion every player needs a army of unskilled alts flying free ships to kamikaze attack some random person before mining/undocking/passing each gate so the inherent security features work as intended. Seems redundant to me and not fun or skillful, just another technical knowledge hurdle to gate keep gameplay and ultimately slow game play down.
And you missed the point of what I was saying, which is…
“Why?”
High-sec is objectively very secure. I don’t know of any other area of space that has a police force that responds within 3-26 seconds of aggression, and destroys a criminal using an inescapable kill trigger. Nor do I know of any other area of space that has 8 sentry guns around gates and stations, or an NPC military that chases outlaws no matter where they go.
“High” is in fact very accurate for the security system that high-sec possesses. Note how it doesn’t say “absolute” or “perfect” security.
Yes, well, fix these things first, instead of eliminating the last remaining economic driver in the game in the hope that things will somehow “balance out” in the end.
But I’m going to warn you that proposing any sort of nerf to high-sec rewards is going to be met with more hostility from the grubby carebears than merely disagreeing with them that high-sec needs to be made safer. They are more concerned with spoonfuls steadily arriving into their waiting maws as they fidget and gurgle, than with an occasional spoon falling on the floor and needing to be replaced with a clean one. These aren’t really people were talking about after all, but more like mindless humanoid cattle that exist to do nothing but consume.
This is funny because some of my inflection has been missed by you and the forums refusal to quote a quote as the quotation marks were meant to ironically draw attention. So I will just point out one word for you and ask you accept it is not a typo:
No that was not what I suggested. Spawning CONCORD as a defense was the suggestion of Drison, I just corrected him on the details he got wrong on the game mechanics.
There are many ways how you can defend yourself when mining. The simplest is to just pick the appropriate ship and fit it correctly. That takes around 10min of research or you can just ask someone and is the most effective counter measure.
The security features are already working as intended. It’s extremely easy to make your mining, or whatever else you do, secure in highsec and it’s absolutely not difficult to find this information or figure it out by yourself.
You know, choosing the right ship and fitting it for the thing you want to do is kinda an important gameplay aspect of EVE. I’m always baffled when I see suggestions in the direction of getting rid of that requirement for people in highsec, because every time you remove a threat that is exactly what happens, it just makes the game even more boring than it already is.
Actually, I quoted your post so it was; word for word what you suggested.
Though I do admire Kit’s perspective:
Sadly the depreciating player count could leave some less optimistic but Eve has survived much longer than most and that should be celebrated.
And Karak, Destiny, I disagree.
And that is ok, we can disagree.
While many ideas might be couched in this idea of sides. The view of most people in all things is more complex and comes from the middle. Like my first post I quoted and agreed with a portion of what Destiny said but she took it as hostile or disagreement because I didn’t say I agreed with everything she said…
Karak thinks the Hi Sec Gank would disappear if players increased their ship fitting/skills/knowledge?
No it would not, there will always be a spectrum and the Gankers are opportunists who will just take the lowest hanging fruit regardless of actual height (ship fitting…).
And Destiny started out talking about how financial disincentives would never be enough which I agreed with because unless it was a tax and reimbursement it could never stop a single Gank, but in doing so it would stop all Ganking which we both thought was bad.
Further, I dont like the draw CONCORD mechanic as it can be gamed with a free no skill player/ship. But you and Karak like it?
Karak, thank you for your contribution to the discussion.
Your suggestion to use corvettes to pull CONCORD for a guard
and your suggested solution to solve/defend against Ganking (the OP’s topic of discussion)
I need not paraphrase you when I can quote you Karak, impossible for anybody to miscomprehend what you mean then. And fear not as we are in the thread you made these comments they will not be taken out of context.
FYI Flynn, as a reader, it seems pretty disengenuous to interpret Karak’s “you can defend yourself when mining” (which you agree is the topic of the OP) as “Hi Sec Gank would disappear”, which is an unattainable goal (edit: which you also seem to agree with Destiny as being a bad outcome anyway).
On the first quote I correct Dryson that to pull there is no Destroyer required
In the second quote I talk about miners choosing the right mining ship and fit it correctly to make it extremely improbable of getting ganked and losing the ship.
So yes, at least for you it’s not impossible to miscomprehend it seems.
Do you know how many times I see people bring barges into lowsec? Without even checking Zkill? Or think just cause they’re at an Athanor, they’re invincible?
I even offered my consultation services to a group after they lost like, five barges and a Porpoise, but no, theyre not interested. Shame, because I could have told th how to make mining in lowsec very profitable, but people think they just know better shrug
I sometimes wonder how such players play other games. Do they repeatedly fall into the first hole in the ground in super mario because they refuse to learn that there is a jump button? And then go to Nintendos forums and demand they fill that hole so “new players” don’t quit when they fall in.
No I am quite certain of the mechanics. One destroyer piloted by Alt A of the mining barge fleet attacks a barge in an ice belt. CONCORD arrives, eats the destroyer like a fine pizza, fork, knives and silk neck bib, can-o-whatever. Alt A logs out, logs into their barge account and gets free security for some time.
If the mining fleet has twenty barges, oh that big juicy whale fleet, ten become the ‘gankers’ who attack the other barges but don’t Mario them like a pizza. Log out and then log back into their barge accounts.
How many CONCORD flip the pizza and how long does CONCORD flip the pizza?
The game has nearly died due to scarcity. The market is completely fked for the average peeps, a measly t1 frig can cost up to almost half a mil, a t2 mod offering 20% boost can cost 60mil… And peeps reckon adding scarcity in HS would fix the game. The thing which has already screwed the game. Making HS sht just to push newer players into dying on the regs isn’t going to work and especially in a game where you player your way. They’re not going to learn anything except tp uninstall quicker and that’s not good for the game.
Try to imagine being a new player and having a good look at the market. A fking destroyer is 10mil XD
but Eve has survived much longer than most and that should be celebrated.