Bitervet Rant about BCs


(S'totan) #1

Back in the day before the BC nerf, the Battle cruiser was the choice of ship for PvP.

It was just amazing for multiple aspects of the game. Their nerf, the FW changes for ship limitations in complexes, and gate gun mechanics changes led to the issues thst forced me out of the game.
This is the chronilogical order of issues that came about directly from these changes.

  1. FW discouraged the use of BC in lowsec. Before the nerf of the BC, frigs and destroyers needed to work in buddy groups to take on BC, they didnt straight outclass a BC by themselves minus the OP Dramiel at the time. (Ccp nerfed the Dramiel and then buffed all the rest of the frigs to damn near Dramiel OP levels)
    For people that are looking for fights ,especially in lowsec, flying in a BC means that you won’t be able to defend FW space as a frig can flip a system in a novice over time. So you must fly T1 / pirate frigs to take on the opportunities to fight(which are limited due to a dwindling player base)

  2. Less BC use presented less targets for BS hulls in lowsec. BS escalations were down right fun to be a part of and fun to take on. BS could actually be outclassed by solo frigs and destroyers by themselves due to sig radius and angular velocity. But this was balanced by the use of BC/ cruisers on the field. Frigs filled the roll of a quick tackeling ship rather than the primary DPS of the fight. Frig ewar was extremely useful and led to actual measurable outcomes in fights.

  3. Less BS hull usage in lowsec presented fewer and fewer targets for carrier escalation. People would be inclined to use carriers more haphazardly when it was presented with actual targets rather than a fleet of frigs which would almost always doom a carrier.

Long story short the changes ultimately alienated anything above cruiser sized hulls for not on FW but the entire game as well due to a massive drop in target oppertunity.


(Quelza) #2

CCP are apparently looking to fix some long-standing issues with FW. One issue that has been brought to them is the fact that all FW ‘plexes provide the same amount of system capture progress, effectively rendering medium/large ‘plexes an inefficient means of pushing system capture.

If CCP were to address this by making large ‘plexes worth more for system capture, it might potentially fix these issues you’ve brought up.

Doesn’t seem like they’re gonna get around to it anytime soon, though.


(Mizhir) #3

The issue is the FW mechanics. Not BCs themselves. They are being used in large amounts in nullsec.

And people drop carriers on freaking everything these days. So there is no lack of potential for carrier escalations. At all.


(S'totan) #4

The point was the lack of lowsec targets. Some people dont like dealing with bubbles so the answer is not always nullsec. Also the BC warfare you are talking about is large fleet combat. You dont see small group BC gangs in the way you used to. 5-10 BC engaging another gang of 5-10 BC.
You know, the kind of combat that didnt involve right-click approach FC. The kind of combat that was engaging and required you to think. Not everyone wants to be part of an alliance in null where you sit around and wait for an FC to feed you content.

I agree with you that the FW mechanics are messed up. See the 1st bullet lf my post. I didnt care too much for FW to begin with, but when all those FW people switched from larger ships to frigs it really made an impact on low sec. Null sec went the same route with the interdiction nullified ceptors when it comes to roaming gangs.

I honestly think that gates that limit ship use in space (minus capitals in high sec) is just dumb inherently.


(Mizhir) #5

I am well aware of what small gang pvp is and I have done my share of <10 man gangs with BCs and stuff. I definitely agree with you that lack of targets for such gangs is an issue but you have to understand that EVE has changed a lot since the BC glory days. The fleets are much bigger now. So are alliances. Caps are way more prevalent. So roaming with 5 BCs in lowsec will most likely get you blobbed to death by large fleets or a bunch of caps.

And lowsec lacks mechanics to promote the use of BCs. FW plexes are often done with smaller ships and pos/citadel/CO fights are often done with caps and BS.

I would love to see more BC action however the issue is not BCs themselves but how the game has changed. Hopefully CCP will give lowsec and FW an overhaul but it probably wouldn’t fix the cap spam which is suppressing smallgang BCs heavily.


(DrButterfly PHD) #6

This is no bad thing. Encouraging more small ship fights makes FW more accessible to newer players and players that want to be able to risk and lose a lot of ships without losing too much isk. FW does not need changes that shift the balance towards solo players flying expensive ships vs. groups flying cheap ones. It needs the opposite.


(Rayaghuma) #7

You are right, the game has changed and many people adapt to these changes, but also many people dont do it and get left behind… see the OP. Its essential in every game that you adapt to new situations and think different. Dont expect a game company to adapt the game back to old standards, only because some people dont like it.


(Quelza) #8

A gang of small ships can capture mediums and larges just as well as any “large and expensive” ship.

I simply find it ludicrous that ‘plexes with such long timers provide only a larger LP reward. You can run multiple small sites in the time it takes to run a large, meaning that running larges could be considered detrimental to a system push. They’re only good for LP farmers.


(DrButterfly PHD) #9

If you’re really pushing a system then you’ll run all the sites anyway. Making the smaller sites higher value for capture purposes just encourages you to prioritise the smaller sites first.


(Matthias Ancaladron) #10

Solution > secondary rack or bonuses for all weapons.
Missile bonuses apply to everything right now.
If I’m in a battlecruisers I should get a damage boost to small turrets also not just medium. Give me an incentive to use 4 medium guns and 2 small guns at 2x my ships damage bonus to turrets so you have a mixed platform.
Like a real life ship. They didn’t have just one weapon types. They had AA, they had smaller guns and big guns
BC + need an “AA” option against smaller sized vessels

Alternatively this could be repurposing weapons. Missiles have the rapid light, for lasers we have quad light beams. Make quad light beams more effective and give people an incentive to run them so you could have a quad light harb that can defend itself against frigate swarms. Except quad lights suck compared to how much everyone loves the rapid light.

As for the second rack leave bonuses as is but I get an extra 2-3 high slots that can only fit undersized guns.
And at battleship it would be a mix of medium or light and you get no increased pg or cpu. small end firepower against smaller stuff.

Also battleships and battlecruisers are way to slow now. Every frigate out there is blasting around at 2k/s or 4k/s and warps way faster.
Roll back the bc-bs speed nerfs.


(Phaade) #11

I think the most dominant thing about frigates is their warp speed. And flight speed in general. Cruisers should warp at 4.0, BC at 3.5 and BS at 3.0. BCs just can’t keep up with most fights. And in large plex, just bring an Oracle or couple tornados and maledictions, dead BCs.


(Quelza) #12

That’s what Hyperspatial rigs are for.


(Phaade) #13

No… Just… No


(Sebs Pride) #14

Times change, this is eve that adapting is necessary.
I people used to say the ishtar (Isktar) was the best ratting ship, then it got nerfed and was replaced by the VNI as the king of ratting.
And the rifter used to be the king of pvp and it got nerfed as well.
There are probably many other examples but the idea is things get nerfed. This is eve, live and adapt.


(system) #15

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