With railguns you don’t need a MJD, so that’s +1 extra mid slit to play around with.
dunno, I always fly long range with MJD. Actually even some short range I do, like garmur (edit : vargur).
The issue with long range is that you don’t want to let small fries orbit you. So bastion off, align, MJD, bastion on, to deal more damage.
In terms of dps, absolutely. However, I’m talking about a Bastioned Kronos here. Even a 25% dps drop from mixed guns is largely irrelevant compared to the benefit of essentially having 110km of engagement range without having to move.
On paper dps numbers are all well and good, but application and engagement range are king. Pretty much the only time that the dps number you get on the fitting screen ACTUALLY apply is if you are structure bashing. In a Marauder - you outgun everything in any L4 massively even without fitting a single Magstab. Also, actual dps (after misses and glancing shots) is FAR lower than what the fitting screen says your theoretical (paper) dps is.
Also, target prioritisation is super important. The blasters on a Kronos can hit and kill anything, including frigates, until they get to about 12-15km. So kill all frigates immediately, and priositise them on later spawns. Destroyers and larger can be reliably hit with blasters even at point blank range if you have decent skills (a web or grappler helps, but is not necessary - plus you have drones for that sort of thing). Rails with Javelin operate well at Null Blaster ranges, but switch to Antimatter for anything more than about 40km and you’re golden.
TLDR: Are mixed guns the most efficient? No. Are they fun and viable? In my opinion (with the caveat of specifically being in a properly fit mixed-gun Kronos)? Yes, absolutely.
If you are at the point where you can ungroup your guns so you can volley multiple targets, then I would argue that the split gun configuration is more efficient as you are killing more things faster with less wasted ammo.
You reach a point where DPS matters less and speed/maneuverability and target time increase your speed of mission completion more. There is definitely a balance to be had.
It really comes down to damage application.
Even with blasters you generally can’t hit frigates under 15km without a web and under 10km without a web+grappler, so that’s 1-2 slots just to be able to hit frigates in some scenarios.
Myself, I find that roughly 25% of the time I’m destroying frigates with my drones - the rest of the time being able to snipe them at 20km+ with rails.
Or you just use drones for frigates in which case you might as well have more DPS, range and application with rails.
Yes, you can MJD all over the place with blasters - but in that time I’ve already picked off most of the long-range ships while you’re still in-transit.
……….
If blasters work for you - fantastic. And if a hybrid setup is the ticket - more power to you. I may try a hybrid setup just for kicks to see for myself (although I think the muscle memory/play style of my railgun setup will hinder me at the outset).
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It’s a worth a try, though the mixed gun setup really only shines in missions where there are multiple groups from short to long ranges (Mordus Headhunters comes to mind). But as to whether it’s more efficient than just MJDing to a new spot (whether to re-establish sniping range, or to get into Blaster range), I’m not sure. Any difference in efficiency is probably not worth worrying about. It’s more about playstyle: do you like the Raven/Golem playstyle of sitting still and blapping everything in the room? If so, the Mixed guns might suit you. If you prefer jumping around to get into optimal firing position, then mixed guns may not be your bag.
So yeah, give it a go on a mission or two.
Personally my only gunnery mids are two tracking computers, or TC and target painter (which gives me all the application I need - though bear in mind I have perfect skills); webs, grapplers etc I only use for events like Crimson Harvest (where thay are necessary to hit the frigates)
I like the Dual 250mm railguns and just switch from Antimatter to Thorium or Spike when needed (tracking increase is enough to ditch Javelin).
Have to confirm that. I use both setups and over all missions the RailGun Kronos is much more convenient and most of the times also faster because you don’t need to reposition, just warp in, siege and fire with Shortrange Ammo. And if any EWAR bothers you, MJD out to 100+ km and snipe everything with Spike.
However, the BlasterKronos has a higher peak-performance if the mission provides a lot of high-ehp targets that spawn very close range. But those are rare and the Railgun Kronos is not that much behind anyway.
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Yeah, that’s basically what we all been saying.
Blaster is only better is very specific missions.
Blaster Kronos
Largest integral is the Kronos using Null ammo. Highest absolute DPS is obviously and was always going to be Void.
Railgun Kronos
Largest integral is a Kronos using faction ammo (CNA in this case) - Javelin only really makes sense against smaller than battleship sized targets.
Comparison
It is apparent that the Railgun Kronos is superior against battleship sized targets, orbiting over 25 km away. I do want to emphasize that your performance increases dramatically if you can garuntee engagements at <25 km, as you should be using Void ammo then…
Where you will be doing far more damage against even smaller targets. The Kronos and hybrid weapon systems are well suited to engage the likes of serpentis, who do tend to orbit under 10 km. Just keep that in mind. If you are using your Kronos for any other NPC faction which doesnt tend to close orbit, go for railguns.
I like the amount of work you have put into this, but you have made common mistake. You simulate the NPCs as “orbiting”, but thats simply not the case. When you warp into a pocket, all NPCs will try to reach their battle distance and this means initially they all either approach you or seek distance from you in a straight line. In reality the fewest NPCs even survive long enough to enter any kind of orbit, especially if you you shoot from small to large, zapping all the Frigs and Cruisers long before they get any significant transversal.
In my experience with the Railgun Kronos, almost every single shot is a hit. A good hit. There are simply close to zero misses and for a fair comparison to blasters you can completely ignore the dps-loss due to tracking against a close-range orbiting target - because if you select your firing order not extremely bad, that is never an issue.
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With railguns you have 3 options:
- 425mm - best range, damage; worst tracking, slow ROF (frequent reloads); need Javelin + tracking to hit large/fast targets
- 350mm - mid-range, second highest damage; average tracking, fast ROF (average reloads); need Javelin to hit large/fast targets
- Dual 250mm - shortest range, damage; best tracking, insane ROF (almost no reloads); can hit any large/fast targets with any ammo
I’ve personally found that 350mm railguns consistently outperform 425mm railguns, mainly because a single volley from a pair of 350mm guns is more than enough to destroy frigates, destroyers and some cruisers. So the faster ROF translates to more targets being destroyed.
Running railguns in pairs seems to be the optimal setup (not as one large grouping or 4 individually).
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There is also Combat Log Analyzer, I would be interested in comparing results of 350 vs 425mm. I would personally not bet on 350’s being better.
They are on the whole - especially in missions with lots of smaller (moving) targets.
Let´s say there are 50 ships in a mission that can be one shotted by railguns in pairs.
That is 25 times you shoot your 2 paired rails, times 0.5sec ( 2.14s for 425mm railguns - 1.64s for 350mm railguns) = 12.5 sec gained.
For me, 12.5 seconds gained is not enough to trade in my 58km optimal 142km falloff from the 425mm railguns for the 43km optimal and 114km falloff the 350mm give me ( antimatter loaded ).
And it also depends on how many of the 12.5 seconds gained fall inside the bastion cycle, thus giving you zero benefit.
I’ve run them both ways - it ends up being roughly the same completion time. On missions with more (smaller) targets or enemies in close proximity, the 350mm guns win out. I actually like the dual 250mm setup for most missions as you hardly ever need to reload.
Rails are still better overall, which was the main point.
Send me a eve mail… ill link you my budget friendly kronos
I use T2 blasters on mine and run level 8 missions in sov space. It works awesome. I only have 1 repair module on it and it does the trick.
Having read through this a few times, I finally pulled the trigger and fitted out a Kronos with 350 rails. The lower DPS over the 425s is noticable, but the clear is still faster with the application/tracking against frigs and cruisers. 4 missions in and not needed to throw drones out once. Lot of flying left before I make a permanent decision about fitting, but it’s a very good first showing.
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You may find that Faction 350mm rails outperform T2 350mm rails, as they require less capacitor (so you can revise your fit to have more damage or application). Don’t forget that +6 ROF and +6 hybrid damage implants are not stacking penalized (so that’s +12% DPS right there). A T2 bust aerator in the rigs + 3 Faction mag stabs also really maximizes the potential of the 350mm rails.
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