So your posting is kinda funny. I mean, were you sputtering when you typed this?
Here’s your point:
I call that exaggeration, so you say:
SO it’s either dead and empty, and you can’t buy anything, or it’s got 30 people in it and you can buy T2 weapons for only a 50% markup from Jita. Then you go on to say:
Except the supply is there, there’s tons of it, in Jita. So, you know, any trader who cares to can fill a freighter full of goods in Jita and fly it to Rens and sell everything there for a 50% markup. That’s pretty huge profit potential, and people would be lining up to do it if it worked.
Why doesn’t it work? The supply is there. Buy-fly-and-sell is a lot easier than setting up entire local manufacturing chains (to counter your ‘laziness trumps margins’ made-up argument).
It doesn’t work because you can’t sell that supply in those hubs without crashing the price.
So sure, I get it, you had an idea, you thought it’s good, someone shoots it down, so you start frothing and flailing to try to ‘prove’ your idea is the one true thing. But really, please at least learn some basic economics and maybe check out the actual current game environment before you start saying things like:
In case you haven’t noticed, I’m not defending the game, and I haven’t said one word about ‘my play style’. I’ve just pointed out the flaw in your argument and you’ve gotten overly defensive about it.
I used to produce T2 items for Rens. Including 200mm AC IIs. There is a reason the price is high. You can either pay it and support the local economy, or go to Jita like everyone else and lament “why isn’t the local economy better”.
This is like complaining about WalMart killing off Main Street of America while in the checkout line of a Super WalMart.
I stopped producing for Rens because people would rather haul their own cheap ass ■■■■ bought from Jita and undercut actual local producers and devalue their hauling time in order to flip a small profit on pitiful demand that is Rens. It is easy to saturate the market because people don’t want to buy locally. Which is fair gameplay.
That means a 1.5x market upsell in price can’t make up for 10x slower speed of moving product.
As for this disingenuous faggotry: a healthy universe saw 300-400 players active in the other hubs whenever there were 1 ,000 or more players in Jita.
That’s a healthy, active universe.
No one cares if you personally want to play stock market simulator while you spin your corvette.
Enjoy your play style.
Your playstyle would be unaffected by a change that would revive a diseased game world.
10 years ago people hauled to Jita because it’s where a significant portion of buy orders were for quick cash. Jita always had some of the lowest sell order prices, and people hauled outward because there was arbitrage to be had: there were people willing to buy locally at the other hubs. Eve if those buy orders weren’t there, there was a reasonable expectation that setting up a sell order would see it quickly emptied out by people willing to say “I don’t want to travel to Jita and I’d rather buy locally and pay a little more”.
Now everyone shopping devalues their game time and goes to Jita, and consumers that demand “fill other hubs with Jita prices” are asking others to also devalue their hauling game time. This isn’t an attack on those people, just the stark reality.
Because there are people – like you – who won’t pay a 50% markup (which isn’t a dig at you, it’s a reasonable decision) there is no local demand and Rens is the most noticeable place for this. Producers can do a 10-run T2 module production cycle and singlehandedly completely swamp all the month’s demand for that item. And it’s going to be at a price that is not impressive: why bother buying mats at Jita prices in Jita, hauling ■■■■ all the way to Rens, producing in Rens, and then selling it in Rens at Jita ■■■■ prices; when you could do all that near Jita and skip the hauling? No one wants to devalue their hauling time like that. Which is why there’s a markup. But then people would rather take 30 minutes jumping to Jita to save 2 million ISK on some T2 small guns, so producers rightfully look at the whole situation and say “■■■■ that effort”.
There is also a lack of T2 moon mat supply in Rens that makes it extremely difficult for producers, in turn, to also “buy locally”. It’s a vicious downward spiral. Especially since many of those T2 moon mat supply relies on nullsec bloc whimsical supplies.
Precisely. And I’m not judging anyone for taking advantage of game mechanics to maximize profit vs effort. That’s just being smart.
As soon as you force people to manufacture at distance, you’ll see more buy orders for mats in other hubs, more people treating hauling as a profession and more activity across the universe.
Which is exactly what the case was before they removed slots.
Slots existed to prevent exactly the concentration of players you see in the game today, and worked very well.
The system cost index is a terrible substitution thought up by a very immature economist thinking Pigovian taxes are enough to modify behaviour.
Of course you’re still lacking any buyers in those areas.
You seem to be missing the crucial component of “buyers” in your equations. “Flood supply and the demand and traders will come” won’t really work without buyers. You’ll just end up with deflation and an inability to sell anything, which will cause all the locals to pick up and move their operation to where they can sell.
Which is exactly what’s already happened.
Io Koval told you the facts. I told you the facts. It’s pretty obvious that anyone who wanted to could pick up cheap stock at Jita, fly it out to Rens, toss it on the market cheaper than anything there, and provide all the supply you could ask for.
People have actually tried this, and given up on it. Not enough buyers.
I know, I know, you don’t want to hear your plan won’t work. And you’d rather substitute insults, exaggeration, and hyperbole for actual reasoning.
The simple fact is, activity is down in those hubs because activity is down game-wide. And the activity that’s left is concentrated in a few ISK-farming-friendly areas.
Get a thousand or more mission runners and FW skirmishers and gankers and incursion pilots active in the area, and you’ve got a market. Then people will supply locally, no cumbersome slot mechanics needed.
Once again, as your simple mind seems to fail to grasp, just as buy orders for mats will find traders hauling out for profit, sell orders will find traders hauling in for profit.
And yes, this works very very well, because traders will happily semi-afk a hauler alt while they fully afk their station alt both for profit.
And there are literally mission runners bitching on the forums that there’s no supply anywhere outside of Jita.
I’m a moron, as you’ve so kindly pointed out. So perhaps you could tell me, where are the thousands of buyers located that these traders are going to sell their goods to?
Ah, so your plan is to force industrialists away from Jita to other hubs, to enliven those other hubs.
And the way this will work is, if you force the manufacturers away, they’ll put up local buy orders, and then haulers will haul materials away from Jita to fill those orders. And then traders will buy those materials from local hubs, and hire haulers to haul it all back to Jita again so they can sell it on their other trader alt. At Jita prices. With the additional expense of 2 full hauls and 2 sets of trades in the middle. (Trades aren’t cheap anymore, if you haven’t noticed). Oh and an extra Omega account to support your hauler and trader alts.
Yes, yes, this plan makes perfect sense. This will absolutely result in revitalizing every low traffic hub in the game. I can see it now.
This. I used to put up orders in many regions with thin markets. Many times they would have to be renewed but as the cost was low it was only time invested to keep them going.
Now with the huge relist fees there is no reason to put orders in these regions as they inevitably result in a huge loss.
Also, I used to put up larger quantity orders but now with the relist fee, it is much better to have a larger amount of tiny orders in trade hubs and re-create them quickly if I need the volume. That way if you have to adjust you are only penalized on adjusting a small orphaned order rather than the fee on a huge amount of items.
Because before the balance was broken by removing slots, this is exactly how the game functioned.
There were even all sorts of wonderful tools that would help identify profitable trade routes for traders.
As soon as slots were removed, standings for high sec removed and engineering complexes introduced, that balance collapsed and now you have a diseased game in a ■■■■ state.
A hell of a lot more happened to centralize players. Which is what people are telling you. It isn’t just about manufacturing. It’s also about: the introduction of filaments (letting entire roam fleets stage out of Jita instead of a corp HQ or secondary marker, especially useful for widely distributed corps); the constant migration of some of the highest value high-sec PvE, Incursions (removing any value in consistently staging at a specific non-Jita location); changes in mining (distribution of minerals across high-, low-, and null-sec took some major changes in the last two years, resulting in a lot of people not being able to locally source all their minerals anymore and increasing manufacturing costs, drying up smaller markets due to the margins being too small for profitability); and the current trade fee mechanics (standings requirements for optimal fee discounts for traders make a single corp hosting the majority of trade a good thing for profit margins, and drives mission runners who are raising standings to operate in the same general area of space as Jita because that’s where the missions are for Caldari Navy) - just to name a few other components that are in play here.
It’s a hugely complicated economy, and simply restoring manufacturing slots won’t be some magic bullet that kills the Jita centralization.
Even if you’re right the game won’t be reverted because it now has a development track tied to story arcs.
If you want to see your “change” play the game.
