Shift eve economy

Here’s a though, how about if we could make taxes scale up or down with the trade volume in that region, maybe reviewed each month. That would open up alot of new trade around New Eden, as taxes would become to high to everyone keep trading in a single spot.

  • Market dominance for a single/couple coorp would become alot harder
  • Lots of new trade routes would be open, followed by the gankers and pirates seeking loot
  • Players would spread more around New Eden, instead of centralize everything in Jita
  • Goods would flow all around instead of the fixed trade routes that exist now

I belive this would make New Eden a better place to roam, trade, fight and all around live in.

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I also thought this was a fairly obvious step after industry indices. It’s long been a goal of CCP’s to decentralise trade from jita and this would probably do it.

But for whatever reason it hasn’t happened.

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Because it is the most underwhelming thing ever to do. Moving things clearly is the most amazing thing ever to do, especially large quantities of things. It’s also a super amazing thing to bust your home system’s market just by … wait for it … living there. Not to mention, having to go to different areas every other week to get the things you need to blow stuff up and/or move your gear to help other people move things around to blow things up is also such an amazing activity. I cannot wait to do all of these things.

Here is a tip: Before you demand “spread the markets” you ought to spread the markets first. Setup a market in Vlillirier or whatever GalMil uses these days as hub. Do the work to spread the market and maintain its stocks so that people do not have to go to Jita to buy things. If you like it you may come back and tell us of your experience.

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you hit the point of this idea, make ppl move around with stuff, more destruction, more build up, more content for all, make New Eden vibrant with activity and not just a few systems. Make a home in Jita or whatever and stay there for decades seems like stall the game.
Anyway its just a suggestion, not a demand

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Jita exists because hub and spoke is by far the most efficient way to connect producers and consumers. That’s true in the real world and players quickly figured it out in game - Jita as a central market was created by players - not CCP.

A tax regime like the one proposed would be paid by consumers - either directly or indirectly because reorganizing supply chains increases the cost of doing business.

True except not in context, in context what happens is the primary hubs become super expensive places to do business.

In EVE it costs the same to do business in Jita as some trade hub in Amar low sec. That makes no sense.

Also in a vacuum, the rest of the producer consumer chains do exist, places like Rens continue to have a market so it would not take much to shift player patterns. The difference between transporting to Jita and selling local, can be a very fine line.

This is a mild solution. My suggestion was:

I think that is clear. The question is whether adding those costs makes for a better game.

In the real world, there are intrinsic disincentives, and even the laws of physics, that kick in at high densities and prevent us all from doing our shopping at the same shopping mall. Eve doesn’t have that for trading, and arguably as a universe simulation it should.

The primary goal of any game change shouldn’t be to keep prices low for consumers. What matters is if that makes for a better game. I think something like the industry index, but for trading, might introduce more game play, but like so many things it needs balance to not just make things too tedious to do buy what you need, yet still incentivize more local trading.

EVE does not purport itself to be a “universe simulation”. It’s a video game.

“It works that way in real life” is never a good reason to implement change for change’s sake unless the express goal of the game is to simulate real life.

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No one said that.

Except people are already moving things around. They are moving to jita!

And like I said, ccp have long wanted to decentralise jita because it may create regional price differences for different items (flavour) and this could be interesting for the game and create depth for haulers/traders.

This is another angle of the ‘too much convenience makes a stale game’ argument. Everyone getting all their groceries from the one-stop shop isn’t as interesting as getting lasers on the cheap from amarr and selling them higher rates in dodixie.

The same reason ccp are talking about resource distribution having ‘flavours’.

It is, however, much more interesting than getting your lasers in Amarr and your MWD in Dodixie and your drones in Jita and having to spend an entire play session just to buy and fit a single new ship. A centralized market means everything is available in one place and downtime is minimized, meaning less loss aversion and more PvP.

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Wait what?

How did you come to that conclusion? Are there some weird material builds/rat drops I’m not aware of?

If it was that bad, or anything even nearly that bad, no one would buy ships and equipment outside of jita today.

Preventing centralization would have that effect.
There will be items you won’t be able to buy on a given hub.

Sometimes I Wanted to buy some items in a hub… there was not, but they were in another. Will happen more often if the taxes make people leave.

Not really.
If the mall is big enough, the park lot big enough, the roads big enough, we can all go to the same place.

The real issue with that proposal is that … how the fck would you even implement that ?
System Tax Index = sqrt(volume of sales made over last month /total sales in the game over last month)*100 ?
Then what ? People place an order at 3% and then the system tax increases so they have to pay 15% instead ? That’s the exact reason people don’t use the the citadels as hubs.

So … people will just stop selling things, because you can’t have a correct evaluation of the tax% ? And they thus stop creating things ? Is your goal to just shut down eve ?

If you want to reduce the activity in the hub, you can’t use the taxes otherwise you kill the industry. In Jita but also in null or wherever.
Instead : each time an order is update/added, it becomes visible on the market after a delay that is 100 * SystemTradeIndex seconds. So with a STI of 100 (maximum possible) that means every order updated will only become visible after 2h46min.
The more people are trading, the slower the orders modifications are handled.

Are you saying that i won’t be able to buy a microwarpdrive in rens? Why not?

Take an honest look at Merins comment. If it was true, we wouldn’t be able to buy and fit ships in markets out of jita today.

But we can can’t we?


He says that forcing people to spread would mean you need to spread over several hubs to get your stuff.

It was just an example. He does not claim that specifically the MWD will be sold in rens.
The thing is, the caldari drones are more used in the caldari region (because rats are weak to kinetic) ; and the lasers are more used in the domain region(s) to kill rats than in eg metropolis. So people who make lasers would rather sell them where it’s worth using them.

So yeah in the end if you force spread the hubs, there will be hubs specialized in some modules/ammos, and people will need to go to that hub to purchase an item (because nobody wants to buy his item for 200% its average value)

No it doesn’t. In the same way we don’t NEED to goto jita today.

Why would i NEED to move around?

Apparently I’d NEED to get it from dodixie.

So how the hell does the proposed changes make enduring mwd’s completely unavailable outside of dodixie?

Are the items outside of jita 200% higher in cost today?

No? Shocker.

I told you why.
Please, read.

It was just an example. Why do you need to focus on a worthless detail instead of trying to understand what he is saying ?

Some are.
I sometimes needed to go to jita to buy some, specifically because they are so expensive in other hubs.
With this modification I would need to go to SEVERAL hubs because the items would be spread.

Why are people making up worthless details rather than understanding what I’m saying?

Yes the idea is meant to create price differences. But why on earth do you think it would cause price differences of 200% or a shortage of a module as ubiquitous as an mwd?

Take for example, faction ships, they are created in respective empire space. Are there shortages or price differences of 200% between empire markets? Do caldari pilots buy their comets from dodixie?

No. So can we drop the ridiculous strawman?

Do tell.

You’re drunk. This is just annoying blabbering.

Because there already are.
There ALREADY are price differences of 1:2 . This would only exacerbate them, by forcing people to sell their items where is already sells.

If lasers are more sold in Amarr than somewhere else, why would someone produce lasers in Jita ? Go produce and sell in Domain, it’s more worth. Then the high index in amarr would make it not worth selling other items, thus pushing them to other trade hubs.

Do your own research.

Some items I am the only one to seed them in the whole Eve, so I know those items are basically not sold out of jita besides by me.
One of them I only found one in Amarr, all the others are in jita (when I remove my orders).

Is this some next level projection?

Why do people do production outside of jita today?

So it’s not a commonly used item for ship fittings.

Colour me surprised.

You’re talking about how it works under the current system, not under a hypothetical alternative with powerful enough anti-centralization penalties that you actually get distinct markets. I mean, not being able to get everything in one system is a basic requirement of the concept! Otherwise you’re just talking about business as usual where there’s one primary market hub.