Eve Markets are collapsing and the 'Hands off Approach' isn't working (trade is dead and Jita killed it)

Communications Center General Discussion
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o/

I get right to it: Jita once was the solution, now it’s the problem.

As for once we had 4 hubs with Jita being at the top,
now we got just Jita and the rest being a relic of the past.

You can fly to 4-4 and get about anything for the longest time now and that is in itself not a bad thing…
and while the other hubs did not have the ‘bazzam’, you did at the very least got most of the things there too, if for a higher price or not as quick when it came to selling, but the markets were alive.

This changed within the past 5~years little by little and then very quickly.

Stand in front of the station in Rens and you won’t find lively traffic.
Go to Dodixie and try to make a quick trade and you find yourself in a void.
Amarr too, seems like a bazzar rather than a marketplace…

Today i stood in the ladder and wanted to buy a Cap Recharger Tech I.(to be clear: Tech ONE) by simply using the fitting manager and when I saw the price of 5million ISK i thought i spit my lunch out!

It wasn’t a case of scaling or scamming or anything, **the system worked perfectly fine and picked the lowest price on the station! Only 2 jumps out someone dropped reasonable pricing.

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That’s all the offers you get. 2 Jumps out one person is reasonable, and that’s that.
Amarrs main offers are now at 8~24.5mil a piece… eesh.

Now…
here is the thing: “THE MARKET REGULATES ITSELF” is NOT TRUE.

Eve is claimed to be a case of “players will find the profit and move accordingly” but quite frankly thats not true. Why would anyone bother to fly to a dead system and sell items and wait weeks for their returns when they can just dump it at 4-4 and have a good sum in their pocket before the day is over.

Players gravitate to the most effective method. ALWAYS.
If bunny hopping makes you move faster that’s all people will do to get from A to B.

Jita is this bunny hop. The game is 20 years old and the optimization of players has become laughable in-depth at this point. If there is an exploit the Eve pilots found it and made it ‘culture’ and doing anything else gets you laughed at. I dare argue that they know more about the game than some devs. They had plenty of time to stick heads together and figure out how to make the tiniest gears turn in their favor.

And this is where CCP (or to keep it ‘canon/ingame’) the states come into play.

(now bear with me for a second)

Eve is said to have 4 equally strong nations with each holding 25% of the (Hs/LS) systems.
All of them use, for whatever reason, the same taxes and tax systems.

Now my question is:
…why would Nations B, C, and D, just stand there and look like idiots while Nation A is grabbing all the profits?!

Wouldn’t Nations B,C,D do try to incentivize a revival of their given markets?!
Wouldn’t Nation A try to fill their pockets by taking a cut for themselves?? (especially greedy Caldari…)

Honest, this is where the canon falls apart, and where I gotta say CCP failed us big time.
There is no system in place to regulate those markets and spread out the players even a little.

Give the game another 5 years and the other hubs might as well vanish from market-tracking sites since it’s just not worth bothering with double (or single)-digit sales in the millions.

Google: the first site popping up: https://www.adam4eve.eu/market_hubs.php
Nicely shows the volume traded on the respecting hubs.

Jita is 5.7x times bigger in buy and 6.2x in sell value than Amarr
6 times better than 2# place… - that’s nuts! Or at least it would been, but place 3 to X are FAR worse!

We are dropping from TRILLIONS into the BILLIONS in volume.
Many individual players could easily eat up those markets all alone with change to spare.

And… apparently, that’s what some do while the rest celebrate in Jita, drunk on their profits.

Congratulations.

The Eve economy is on Life-Support in Room 4-4.

Even the smallest adjustment in taxes (in the affected areas) could help greatly to bring back the economy.
Give Rens/Hek 1%, Dodixie 0.75%, and Amarr 0.5% (sales) tax reduction or something like it and just let it play out for a while (months, year(s?)). Just to name a number. Either that or CCP has to find another way…

Right now Jita has the ‘Monopol of Convenience’.
This makes this system stand out above any other in a market where others might as well are the same.

Just keep in mind: This isn’t a thing you can fix overnight.
This sad economic stems from our Eve culture or rather the culture has become a doctrine.

When it once was a tip to ‘hey, go to jita, its better’ it’s now ‘do not go anywhere else!!’

I very much wish to bring back traffic into those other systems. Make them lively again!
Unless you all want to fly another 24~50 jumps to get any freaking Tech 1 module for <5mil… :confused:

fs

ps. The suggested tax reduction should be implemented flexibly so that weaker places do get it and those frequented more regularly slowly lose it. 0-sec already does have (mechanically) similar systems in place. Based on player combat (in the system) the PVE bonus goes up -and down over time.

Depending on trade volume those taxes could adjust within ~1% range.

Of course, those are my 2 cents on ‘how to easily fix it’. I am certain eve/economy-experts can be more insightful than I am. Then again I think I do represent the average Joe, and the ‘masses’ are made up out of a lot of Joes if you look close enough… shrug … I welcome change either way. Stagnation is death.

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Nobody wants to do industry.

Lowsec is Lowsec. It’s the redheaded step child that everyone ignores, even though it is the only place for some ores.

Nullsec is mined (overmined) out with maxxed out Rorqs and those resources are used in-house for alliances.

In Highsec there is so little reward for time spent when it comes to yield and availability, and add to that our special kids in CODE. and all of their copycat special children clones…

Nobody wants to be forced to work with other groups (low/null). I understand Null has always had specific resources, which is fine, but those were rewarded richly in Highsec through the markets.

CCP’s mistakes are finally catching up to them. Revert ores back to where they were, increase the damn yields and stop gambling with stupid ideas that are clearly failures to anyone with half a brain… and GET RID OF RESIDUE!!!

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@ZombieFX Interesting. Definitely something to look into. Thanks.
I am Gallente. My choice market is Dodixie and I haven’t yet had to go to another market to find what I was looking for that Dodixie didn’t have. I have never been to Jita and will probably never go there. It’s fallen victim of its own popularity as far as I’m concerned.
I do not see what you describe in your OP - without saying it isn’t happening of course.
I have also sold half a million Antimatter charges ( not much but enough to tell ) in an unconsequential system 5 jumps from Dodixie a couple of weeks ago and they sold like hotcakes. Maybe it doesn’t mean anything but the isk I got did.
I don’t know enough about how the Market works in EvE but I personally haven’t been affected by any perceived “market collapse” or difficulties.

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PLayers could jsut match jita price.

On my return I see what is happening in space I have not seen in a good long while.

Dodixie prices as gallente was up on the to do list had me go so…how many jumps is it from jita?

16 to 20ish iirc but my crane and hauler alt moves fast and agile.

Next question…will the several million saved be made up by the next mission so I jsut pay dodixie price? Will it pay out to where I go meh, I don’t need to fly from jita and make out decent.

Already burned my declines on factions declines, crap missions in terms of pay and needing effort. We have chore missions here. I do it or I lose standing. So that answer is no.

Jita crane run it is.

And I wasn’t buying exotic stuff. this was ammo. I was giving vindicator a go. Nice ship…burns through ammo fast though. I got used to kronos ammo saving lol.

Millions in cost difference. Millions jita got. since dodixie sellers to me are banking on player laziness.

Issue…while some like me can be lazy, at some price break even I stop being lazy.

Well that and I make my crane runs tie into double dipping irl crap. I got some irl business to handle I can press jump as I handle irl stuff. Pay bills, personal e-mail crap…I can add press jump a few times for 1 more multitask. IRL crap done, millions saved. Win win for me.

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Welp the great social experiment that is EVE will finally end it seems.

In the end, economics is the study of how all humans interact/trade with each other from raw materials all the way to final user.

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Niarja, you are sorely missed. Now we have a 1/4 vs 3/4 division through hisec.

Amiright ? Is this an after effect of losing Niarja to Pochven ?

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I just miss the days when selling at the trade hubs only took mere seconds to process dozens of orders…

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I’d say yes.

If I felt a need to expand markets I’d buy say 1 more orca/charon. 1 each side of Uedama. And pass those costs on to my customers lol.

Why imo rens and beyond (caldari space start point for reference) have off pricing that have people like use jita and just eat the travel time.

Before this I roamed all the galaxies in orca/charon. Niarja had offshoot routes to deal less with the bottlenecks that I recall even. Took longer…but a better option than dead charon full load.

Now? If a bad day for me I don’t want to feed the Uedama crew an orca KM lol. I wander in much smaller ships.

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Don’t worry, CCP will bugger it up even further.

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Do you even play eve online?

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Looks like the powers of the free market have solved the ‘problem’ and prevented the collapse of New Eden. Within a few hours.

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Maybe just someone bought them off the market previously to keep his tinfoil-hat industry running at max level. But don’t worry, enough capacitor is available again for the loyal people of Amarr.

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Amarr victor…or something

I’d have some some t1 “suffering” from some mission peeps see some crap buy orders and not biting. maybe cba to resell themselves either direct.

Me, I personally take the hit off melting it down to make minerals. I slowly relearn the crap that people low ball most times and jsut melt it down. Its never even hauled to any hub in the region.

I use mats to make my small stuff like t1 ammo. Or sometimes the minerals buyers aren’t trying to low ball you over nearly as much.

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Is that why the markets are full of ships and modules? I like doing Industry but on a small scale at least until I have the opportunity to expand.

I traveled through ( and have mined ) in Lowsec. Plenty of people in lowsec systems who don’t ignore the locations they’re in. I and they don’t seem to think it’s a red-headed stepchild.

Of course not. There is residue in mining, it makes perfect sense so CCP added an immersive element to mining.
:clap: bravo CCP.

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Jita isn’t killing trade. Jita is keeping trade alive because traders can get the stuff they need there for their side hubs. If they had to gather all the things they need from a crap load of different places, the other hubs would be even deader than they are now. Jita has always been much bigger than Amarr. Always.

What you claim as example for Jita’s reason for Amarr’s issues is not reality. Amarr “suffers” because it was cut off from Jita because CCP killed Niarja. Now it’s much easier to corner and manipulate markets there than it was before because the trip between the hubs is so much longer. If anything, this example shows how important Jita is to keep the other markets alive, well stocked and reasonably priced.

That is not going to stimulate trade at all. It’s ridiculous to claim that. Trade is stimulated by the fact that people can get ALL they need/want in one place at reasonable prices. If Amarr does not provide all the things in necessary quantities to stock doctrines or resupply, reduced taxes won’t change that. People simply need to start bringing more goods to Amarr. Other hubs have come into existence without any such changes in the past simply because people saw the need for markets in an area.

That’s not helping either. I am active in a market segment that nowadays undercuts Jita heavily just to keep the garbage competition out of the market and sales don’t increase either.

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yes it is true … if its to expensive then nobody ( or only very view ppl ) will buy it !
if its to cheap then you dont see it on the market because other ppl buy all the stock and resell it for more ! and if youre a monopolist then you can set your price and see if anyone buys it !

because its not of the factions? its player based and has nothing to do with the 4 main factions !

jits was always the biggest trading station … why you are complaining about this situation after 20 years ? does not make sense !

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Why would you go to slums for trade? Maybe you’re out of loop or something, but Rens is not Minmatar main trade hub for a while now. Hek has 50% more trade going on.

Stop being stupid. The market in main hubs works just fine. What you are seeing is market scammer doing his part. Since the module is cheap, and used by everyone, but not in quantities that cause it to be used a whole lot, the result is that someone will but overpriced module. Or a couple. And as such it can be profitable to just buy out entire stock and see if someone makes a mistake when buying.

In Eve? It is true, mostly. Market scams are a thing. Also some things are not made in large enough quantities to supply for the demand. Common cause of this is that any bigger industrialist switches to T2 production, leaving T1 market lacking.

Jita is a cure and a sickness, true. but Jita is also not going to hold for much more. As long as someone decides to seriously turn Ahbazon into a no-go zone Amarr - Jita will turn into 45 jumps endeavor.

Since when? Last I checked Amarr are the biggest and Minmatar the smallest.

You do realize it takes ages to change this course, right? You need trillionaires to move, or at least to split, across multiple hubs. Good luck with that. I can only imagine the stockpiles they have.

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People do industry. People don’t want to do T1 industry that has low profits (margins are fine) and is easy to enter into - thus easy competition by miners that treat minerals they mine as free.

Except it isn’t. The only thing that is lowsec specific is nocxium. But it isn’t consumed in quantities that force mining of lowsec. In fact, most of the nocxium I consume comes from another source - gun mining. The same applies to isogen. Mission loots provide non-trivial amounts of isogen, nocxium, and to lesser extent also zydrine.

In addition, isogen, zydrine and megacyte can also be mined from jspace. I know - do mine gneiss in jspace (with multiple alts and btype crystals it is highly profitable, as mining is trivial to scale up just by adding more alts - and 2M m3 rock makes it so that you don’t have to keep switching rocks).

The market works by supply and demand. And willingness of players to pay for things. The larger the supply advantage over demand - the lower the prices (potentially all the way to being unprofitable). The higher the demand over supply - the higher the prices. Simple as that. In theory, at least. In practice there is also the habits (people do get used to certain price levels and won’t be willing to accept that change in input prices causes change in the output price), as well as market scammers. And then you have miners who think that minerals they mine are free. (they are not).

Good. Death to Amarr.

Yeah, nowadays selling multiple items at once can be slow. Very slow.

Or more likely the order was finished and the one who keeps seeding the market wasn’t online at the time to resupply the market.

Gun mining. Highly profitable, especially due to lack of competition on the market for these modules. Once you have competition the prices rise up fast to levels beyond Jita buy - as long as you get more from reprocessed minerals than it costs to buy these mods.

CCP didn’t kill Niarja. We did. Trigs were supported in the effort to get rid of Niarja.

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Haha so salty ^^

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Hek will become the new Jita. It’s more centrally-located in high sec than Jita, it’s right next door to low sec and FW (perfect for jump freighters and pvp pilots), and most importantly, you can place structures in the same system, unlike all the other “hubs”. So yeah, one day Jita will die and Hek will take its place.

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No, its low ss makes it bad for hauling.
What’s more, if it ever became a hub, CCP would set its nonanchorable flag to true.