A loss in a low volume order is not the same as the loss in a high volume order. So how do you think people will take advantage of this? THINK.
Do you even understand what people are telling you? You have been arguing everyone all day, agreeing with CCP that suddenly “bots in market trading are a problem”, showing how little you understand about trading in every post, and you can’t even understand the gist of basic posts.
You are CCP’s poster child, I hope CCP is paying you to make such a fool of yourself for so long here, just to defend whatever lies they tell their player base.
You are so out of arguments and you understand so little of what’s been discussed here today, that you need to resort to copy pasting your previous responses, and call everything you don’t understand “BS”.
But your trust in CCP is unshackleable, and here you are, still trying so hard to convince us one way or the other… It takes such a SPECIAL kind of person, I bow before you.
You literally posted that bots could bypass the relist fee by using smaller order. That’s completely stupid.
Your whole poitn relies on this kind of nonsense. And since I explained how stupid it is, you go for name calling. How childish.
A lot of trade has moved from the public markets to Keepstar trading.
I find it good that there will be a 1% tax requirement for such venues.
Probably it would be best if CCP increases the Keepstar tax to 3-5% minimum,
to get trading back to the main markets.
Meanwhile I dont care much if I have 4 or 10 trillion in the game,
its just a game.
Gambling up filaments to a few million in the past, to then sell it all to +0.01 bots and then bots sitting on gazillions of worthless filaments was really funny.
No, it was someone else who explained how bots would operate, and to top it all, that’s not what they said. You’ve done this a couple of times already (confusing the persons that has answered to you).
You don’t even understand how forums work - you think everyone that posts in disagreement with you is the same person!
“A loss in a low volume order is not the same as the loss in a high volume order. So how do you think people will take advantage of this? THINK.”
means that bots will BYPASS the relist fee? Especially when you claimed I LITERALLY said bots will bypass the relist fee? Where have i LITERALLY said such a thing? Or even implied such a thing?
Please explain, I’m curious.
You need to stop trying to uphold CCP so hard when it’s clear from all your posts from today you don’t understand trading, bots, markets, alts … forums … posts … or even short sentences. Start small … try to understand short sentences first… and build on that and keep improving … and in a few years from now you could come back, we will read at your posts in this thread, and we will laugh at them together!!!
That’s what I was saying in the previous post : that the relist fee would incur a loss on the bots. And you wrote that they can “take advantage of small orders” in order to avoid that.
So yes you literally wrote that the bots would bypass the relist fee by using small orders.
You need to stop being a retard.
You hate CCP for ruining your game, but seriously, go hate yourself. Your game was ■■■■ anyhow.
Well enjoy crying anyhow, seems you found a new game.
No, the person you were talking to clearly explained to you that bigger volume orders would lose A LOT of money with the relist fee changes, whereas small volume orders would not lose so much. So I agreed with this - the absolute value loss with a high volume order is greater than with a low volume order.
This does not mean BYPASSING the relist fee. BYPASSING the fee would be an exploit, for example, if I hacked the client to send a request to bypass the fee.
People have been trying to explain to you how the new system will be a far better system for bots to thrive in - contrary to your opinion that CCP is always right, has no ulterior motives, and that they are killing the profession to deal with a sub 1% of bot orders and it’s RIGHT.
If you don’t like other people’s opinions, or other persons disagreeing with you, then don’t come to a public forum. And, especially, do not start arguments with people about things you know nothing about just to defend the facade your favourite pew pew game company tries to pull off. And don’t dismiss everything people are trying to explain to you by calling it “BS”.
As I said before, you need to go, sit, and try to learn some reading comprehension before you keep embarrassing yourself so much. Everyone has been reading you and noticing how little you understand of everything you are trying to pretend you are such an expert about. You end up so flustered you confuse the people who write to you.
First the “Traders” who dock in Jita, Place some orders, go off for a few hours to other parts of EVE, then come back to Jita, see none of their orders were filled because another pilot/pilots stayed in Jita and outbid/underbid them, and then complain about “unfair” trading competition
Second,the “real” Traders who sit in Jita (or another hub) and actively trade, placing orders, following them, modifying them when needed.
If you’ve ever done this when two, three or more other pilots are trading the same item, outbidding/underbidding each other, then you know that this is also true PvP competition.
If you’re going to PLAY THE MARKET, than PLAY THE MARKET, don’t be a part-timer and expect to make a lot of ISK.
CCP is increasing order modification costs to shift things away from the micro-managers (their term) to favor the long term “Intelligent Pricing Decisions”. The idea of “Intelligent Pricing Decisions” is a crock.
When I am in Jita I check the market, and maybe I decide to buy a Dominix, so I place a higher bid than what the present bid is. It doesn’t matter whether my bid was higher by 0.01 ISK, 1,000 ISK, 100,000 ISK or some new “Tick” value. All irrelevent.
The only thing that matters is, when that other pilot docks in Jita and sells their Dominix, is my order still the highest bid. Since no one can know when that other pilot will make that choice, the only thing that matters is doing your best to make sure your bids are the highest for the longest time.
If that means checking your orders as often as possible and modifying them by 0.01 ISK as soon as the five minute time limit is up th
OK, I will explain it slowly because it looks like you are having a hard time understanding basic things.
What you don’t understand, is that the number of relist you can do before you are selling at loss is the same whatever is the size of your order.
So no, it does not benefit smaller offers.
We are talking about orders that are being cut by another. The orders that are completed and then replaced by new ones are NOT CHANGED with this. So only the order that are cut are of any concern. And your order can be cut a given number of time before you are selling at loss. This number of time is the same, whatever is the size of the offer.
The only case where it matters, is if using smaller orders make them be sold BEFORE being cut enough to be at loss. But then the only way to do that, is to sell items minimal value by minimal value, and hope to not get cut - because if you’re cut and nobody buys during that time, you are still at loss. And that’s already doable now.
Trading assets via the market for soon 2 decades now,
I see the trade market as stock market.
Few more years and it will be 20 years - If the game goes on a few more decades it will be 40 years of trading.
Its rare to have a game which can cover multiple life generations.
Thinking in decades the thread discussion here is just a millisecond of hot air.
I think you over generalize. There are many different market strategies. I make 9 billion a month with mine. I 0.1 ISK because I don’t believe in being unnecessarily wasteful.
No it’s not stupid. Smaller quantity ladder orders are already seen on the PLEX market.
We are likely to see a lot of this behavior because it minimizes capital exposure on the market and maximizes chances for trade. It’s a sound trading strategy if you can handle all that clicking.
Bots would be extremely effective at placing multiple small quantity orders to block others and maintain top position to allow most buys/sells.
Lets go over this, simplified though because I don’t feel like breaking out the calculus…
I have X widgets to sell.
Widgets typically sell at a rate of Y
New listings are created at a rate of Z
Assuming I always update an order before someone makes a purchase/sale then my best cases will be:
If I list all X at once, I can expect to update my orders (X/Y) * Z times
If I list X in subsets of x’ ≈ Y, then I can expect to update my orders ~1 * Z times – (x’/Y) * Z
We can safely assume X >> Y since we’re talking large volumes here, so no matter what you will have to (on average) update your orders far less breaking them up into smaller orders. Where the only fee you are ever truly having to pay is the listing fee, but we all know you will occasionally have to update. The point being you will have to update far fewer times than the large order. Especially if you are familiar with the market you are in and can better approximate Y and Z.
Since you are only paying these new fees each time you update based on the amount you have up you can see there is a definite savings in listing small orders repeatedly and only replacing once the previous has sold.
THAT is what everyone is trying to say. You seem to be under the misunderstanding that to sell X, you will always update it Z times which is simply not true. And the odds of you selling all X in a single go (Y=X) is very unlikely when we’re talking about actual large volume orders.
Follow that? You aren’t avoiding the new tax, you are minimizing its effects on your margins. By setting your orders up to be as close to Y as you can you minimize your chance of having to update an order multiple times which would otherwise destroy your profit margins or running you negative. Can it still happen? Yes, of course. But you are only eating that loss on that fraction of your total orders, which are unlikely to experience the same run of bad luck. Bots will handle it no better than a human, they can just do it for more hours of the day and across multiple markets with ease where a person will struggle.
