C3 Myrmidon fit... can I trust the numbers?


(Ragionier Sunji) #1

Hi everyone!

I was trying to make a Myrmidon fit for wormhole ratting. Considering my main gig for now is to hack relic and data sites in wormhole, and that can be somewhat unreliable, I wanted to build a ship that could do all sites from C1-C3.

Let’s assume for the sake of argument that I’m gonna get in wormholes I’m pretty sure are empty (i.e.: I’ve been inside for a while scanning all signatures, nobody appeared on D-Scan, citadels inside were empty and control towers had no force fields).

To see what kind of tank would my ship need to have in order to sustain the dps of the hardest site, I use this as reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17cNu8hxqJKqkkPnhDlIuJY-IT6ps7kTNCd3BEz0Bvqs/pubhtml#

If that is correct, it seems the hardest site is the Forgotten Frontier Recursive Depot, with up to 1406 dps.

Considering sleeper have neuts, my plan was to use a passive shield-tanked ship and projectile turrets. While the Myrmidon doesn’t have bonuses for that, it has 6 mids and 5 lows, which means it has room for a lot of extenders and power relays. Still, considering the Sleepers’ appetite for drones, I’m training up an alt to fly a Drake… and training myself to stomach the ugliness of that ship :stuck_out_tongue:

Now, to see which was the target shield regeneration I had to aim for, I trusted this page: https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Shields#Passive_Shield_Tanking

From the graph of shield recharge rates at different shield percentages, it seems that at around 50% shield capacity my shield recharge rate should be double the nominal value.

My reasoning was then to aim for a EHP/s recharge rate of at least half the maximum dps I would face. In other words, above 703 ehp/s

After playing around in pyfa for a bit with alpha clone skillset (max rank 2 for compensation abilities, rank 4 for shield capacity bonus and 4 for recharge rate bonus) this is what I could get (please ignore dps, I still need to find the right guns, but it should be at least 300-350 dps)

As you can probably see, this fit is kind of expensive (130 millions without drones or ammo) compared to what I would need had all my skills been at 5. So before I start poking sleeper drones with a stick, I’d rather have some confirmation that my assumptions were valid.

So… here are my questions:

  1. Do you know if Rykki’s guide is still accurate?
  2. Do you know if I can trust the Uniwiki page on shield regeneration?
  3. Can I be positive the shield recharge rate displayed on Pyfa is the baseline one?
  4. Just to be on the safe side… do you know if I can test this fit on the test server?

(ISD Sakimura) #2

Tbh… you’d probably be better off with a BS. Sleeper rats does like to eat Drones for snacks. With the close range brawler you have in the picture; you are missing 1 fundamental module, a propulsion module, without one you will have a very hard time getting within range to use your autocannons. However your passive shield tank should allow you to do some of the sites but with only ~350 dps you will spend a long time clearing sites.

Yes, you certainly can. Although it might take you a bit of time to scan down a C3 WH (maybe there is on in the /moveme command)


(Ragionier Sunji) #3

Thanks for your answer!

Oddly enough, I tried with BSs, but they do not seem to increase the shield recharge. I think that might be because low and mid slot don’t seem to increase.

The Dominix has a similar layout compared to the Myrmidon and, according to pyfa, in order to have the same shield recharge I’d need a similar layout, which is a problem considering tech 2 field purger are 100 millions a pop. Plus there is the same drone problem.

Anyway, if I got it right, sleepers target drones and neut a lot, so I shouldn’t be using lasers, or hybrid turrets either, right?

That leaves me with missiles and autocannons/artillery, right?


(Erethond) #4

The eve uni page is accurate in that your peak recharge rate (around ~30-50% shield) is larger than the rate at max shield. However, I am 99% sure that the rate shown in pyfa is your peak recharge rate, not your nominal one (the nominal recharge rate is pretty useless as a piece of information).

A myrmidon cannot tank 1400dps. However, you can make a fit that will tank all the combat sites. The relic sites are generally considered to not be worth the hassle any ways. Or at least they were back when I was in a wormhole…

Finally, drone boats are indeed tricky to use in wormholes. A gila might actually do better with the super-drones while still being possible to fly as an alpha.


(Ragionier Sunji) #5

Thanks Erethond!

Ok, this issue one of the main reasons I made this topic: more than to see if that fit was perfect, to see if my logic in making it was sound.
That part about shield recharge rate has been bugging me, because I didn’t seem to find anything around that told me what value was displayed.
Still, the peak recharge seems to be at 25%, where shield recharge rate is 250%. Would that mean that that is the recharge rate displayed, both in pyfa and in game. If that is the one, I’m not sure how useful it is, because if it goes below that value the recharge rate collapses.

EDIT: ok, I’ve checked in game both the shield recharge rate and the recharge time. You are right: the recharge rate displayed (which is the same one displayed in pyfa) is the peak one. By dividing maximum shield capacity by the recharge time you get a value that is roughly 2.5 times smaller than that value. Bummer :frowning:

You know, thinking about it, you might be right. According to the guide, they have a slightly higher value of ISK/ehp. But in order to do that I’d need to lower my dps in favor of tank, thus making the ISK/hour amount slower.

At first I thought that the Gila didn’t have enough tank, but if I stray from data and relic sites maybe it does.
Anyway, considering Gila and Rattlesnake seems to be the most used ratting boats around, it seems like while drones are tricky, they are still desirable for good dps.


(Erethond) #6

It’s better to be disappointed by the numbers now than after your supposedly tanky ship blew up, at least!

The sleeper guarded hacking sites don’t have really good cans and they are quite dangerous. It’s fun to do in a fleet just to goof around, but it is definitely not efficient solo in a BC. If you bypass them, a gila can do fairly well I think and, being smaller, the larger sleepers will have less dps than listed since they will have a hard time hitting you. Tanking is not just repairing more ehp/s than the enemy dps, it’s also maneuvering and flying to reduce that number. That’s a valuable skill for players that no amount of SP can quite compensate for.

For sure, you could do a lot worse than skilling into a gila and a rattlesnake. Especially for alpha clones, it’s hard to find better PvE ships. Drakes and myrmidons make good stepping stones, just don’t invest overly much in the ship skills.


(Ragionier Sunji) #7

I can’t agree more! Thanks for helping me clearing that out!

Looking at dps numbers on pyfa, it also seems like a Gila has a better dps than t1 bcs thanks to bonus to both drones and missiles. Also, I don’t know how sleeper aggro works, but I wouldn’t be surprised if fewer drones were easier to manage.
Still, it seems like I will have to train on the test server to learn spawn points and to see how to speed tank and what camps can I do.

Do you know whether or not I should bother with salvaging them?


(Buggs LeRoach) #8

before fitting tools and in-game fitting , there was maths …

shield capacity hp / regen time * 2.5 = peak regen hp / sec
same formula for cap regen …
peak regen / resist % = damage tanked
edit: thanks to trevor pointing out my mistake ; you divide by the UNresisted % , see post below …


(Ragionier Sunji) #9

Yes, my confusion came because I trusted the shield recharge time, assuming it was the average one, while it’s the peak one (not specified in the tool).


(Trevor Dalech) #10

This would imply that the higher your resists, the lower your tank. I think you mean

peak regen / (1 - resist)


(Buggs LeRoach) #11

thanks for the correction ; divide by the unresisted % . ( i checked using 50% which works either way … :stuck_out_tongue: )
for instance , 100 hp/s at 50% resist is 100 / .5 = 200 dps tanked
at 75% resist it’s 100 / .25 = 400 dps tanked .


(Ragionier Sunji) #12

Well, after playing a bit with the numbers, I’m tented to go with the Praxis rather than the Gila: assuming the speed would make up for the tank difference, it’s a bit cheaper, does more damage and requires less skills.

I will be almost immobile, but from the C3 combat sites footage I managed to find it seems like I won’t need to move around much, Sleepers will warp in in the same position and by warping to 0 I should be in range. For looting and salvagin I’ll bring around a mobile tractor unit and a mobile depot, so the wrecks will move to me (another upside of the Praxis compared to the Gila is that it hase more high slots, which means faster salvaging).

If someone sets their sights on me though I might be in trouble without mobility. I will have to rely on my tank, but most importantly on my ability to tell whether a wormhole is uninhabited or not.

Here’s the fit I’d be using:

[Praxis, 1]

Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
‘Stalwart’ Particle Field Magnifier

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I

Federation Navy Ogre x4

With the skillset I’m aiming for, I should be able to get:

864 ehp/s active tank (more than the highest dps from combat sites)

1044 dps, 54 km range

129 cap recharge, 102 cap consumption, which allows me to be cap stable with 27 neuts

Module price: 165M. Ship price: 120M. Drone price: 17M. Which is less than what I’d spend with Gila, that is sold at 270M alone and requires 2 augmented hammerheads which are 100M. Add in 100M more from the fit and you get to 500M


(system) #13

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