I quit for more than a year and when I started again I noticed there were several improvements in a gameplay (VNI, blackout, taxes, alpha restrictions + new ships, abyssal space and invasion) and even GUI (Agency is finally looking useable actually + new search GUI).
So if the game isn’t dead yet, why nothing changed regarding to sucide ganks and especially with CONCORD pulling?
It is so stupid mechanic that has no logic and justification, it is basically a legit game mechanic exploit.
With the recent changes to rookie ships (which I very like actually) it is even more painful to do it. And no, just because we are doing it it doesn’t mean we like it (apology if I wrongly assumed I am not the only one who hates it and all the other gankers find this exciting and fun to do).
This mechanic needs to go.
Despawn CONCORD ships after gank just as faction police despawns.
Change the CONCORD reaction to what it is now when CONCORD is already in sector. The need to pre-spawn CONCORD in all sectors I want to raid (because I lack DPS and comrades - but even if you have them it is still better to do it) is something I hate even more than pulling CONCORD.
Yes I realize this is a buff (very minor one as it is simply a ganker’s convenience if he doesn’t abuse these mechanics). Yes I realize it removes the stupid AG tactic of spawning CONCORD where you want to do stuff with throwaway alts. I don’t see a problem there, we need more destruction, CCP said that in their blog and right now hs is super safe especially because just about anyone is now mining in damage control + bulkheads Orcas (it seems ganking is focusing blinged BSs mostly).
If needed to be, add more risks to gankers, maybe remove the mechanics that are abused to looting the victims without any risks?
Or… Concord+ insurance/tax. When you get in (non consensual) combat special npc units spawn in an start remote shield repping your ship and some npc ships dampen or even bump the attackers. By then regular concord comes and wrecks pirates.
The mechanic you are referring to dose not De-spawn that Concord instance.
it was added for a reason - people would flood a grid with concord ships and cause undue lag within the system (shard) you used to spawn a new concord instance each time you undocked in a ship whilst you had GCC.
the current mechanic creates a concord instance 2 frigates + cruiser + battleship. for each player that undertakes a “Criminal action” this fleet is tied directly to that player and will re position if the player is in a hull that could continue the act of aggression.
a smart ganker will use this mechanic to clear an area of their CONCORD Spawn to re-engage. keep in mind that the concord ships have an almost instance response time once spawned on that aggressive player.
any spawn that is on grid and not pulled will instantly engage a criminal target keep in mind that this new player going criminal will spawn an additional Concord instance.
the mechanic works vary well and can be gamed by both the ganker & miner. take a throw away alt and cause the concord spawn. only that alt will be able to make that spawn re-position (when it finally despawns you rinse and repeat)
i think my explanation of the mechanic is on point.
a rookie ships costs nothing. its not “more painful” to lose one. ite even easier now with the “request rookie ship” tab in all stations
the mechaninc is working vary well…
well hull tanking is a thing.
-any good ganker is going to be doing it for money. the blingy BS/Freighter is a better target then a hulk in terms or potential payout (not to say that people dont still gank miners, this is more done for the content than anything - insert CODE Reff here)
No it is completely off. Have you ever even ganked?
No, the spawn is not tied to a player. If a player commits a criminal action the nearest unoccupied CONCORD spawn in the system will react no matter who spawned it. If there is no unoccupied spawn an additional one will spawn.
No, the CONCORD spawn has only an almost instant response time when you commit a criminal activity within 150km of them idling around. This is why they get pulled away from gank sites like ice belts or gates. Once they are not on grid anymore (or within 150km) they have the spawn response time + ~6s.
No, a new player will not create a new spawn if there is already one in the system
No, that is completely not how it works. How do you even get the notion that a spawn is tied to a player. Is that something you came up on your own or are they teaching this in the ag channel this days?
What OP is talking about is the ~+6s slower response time you get if CONCORD is already spawned. Let’s say you gank in 4 different system, this means the first action you take as a ganker is to prespawn CONCORD in all those systems (the same amount of spawns as you have gankers) to have that additional 6s before CONCORD responds.
He is NOT talking about pulling CONCORD away from the crime scene.
This preparing the systems is just a useless chore that stems from the fact that the response times are different if they are already in system. It is a simple waste of time and it would really be nice if this could be removed, there I complete agree with OP. It would be a simple convenience fix.
They always moan that they can’t gank the looting ship because of the CONCORD spawns on grid. If CONCORD despawns that would no longer be an issue. How about that for more risk?
concord spawn have historically been tied to the player. this is evidences in the fact that each spawn will follow its target if that target re-enters space in a new hull if previously killed by concord (within the 15 minuet window).
the looting player will go suspect for looting any wreck that is not blue/white to them. being upset that players are using alts to launder the loot is not evidence of a bad game mechanic, just evidence of an intelligent player… (concord will not shoot at you for looting a can in their presence, and should not be changed to do so)
i used to gank miners quite frequently. hulkageddon after all, was a really fun time of year.
a CONCORD spawn if present for the player will follow that player
near instantly to where ever they land.
Im not an Anti-Ganker. i fully support any and all play styles. i just think that people need to stop complaining about a mechanic that is being used against them. CCP changed the mechanic years a go to the “per Player” tag. as stated in my first response, there was a good reason for this. this is also why concord have an insanely fast TTK index (mechanically deleting your hitpoints)
Dude, I just explained to you that this is not the case. Where are you getting this from?
A CONCORD spawn is not tied to a player. It will react to ANY pilot with a criminal timer in the system.
This is ridiculous.
Go test it on the server. You can pull any CONCORD spawn with any character. They are in no way tied to a character
And you are still not talking about what OP was talking about because you simply don’t get it.
You can’t warp if you have a criminal timer. The second you commit the crime or undock on a criminal timer your warpdrive is scrambled.
What happens then is that it takes some time for CONCORD to either spawn or if ANY squad is already in the system they warp to you (they effectively despawn and them respawn near you) which takes 6s longer than a plain spawn, which is what the OP is actually talking about.
sorry for not wording this correctly i did mean to reference undocking to pull the spawn.
as i have previously stated im working on an observation that me and many other palyers had experienced since the original changes to CONCORD back around trinitys expansion and the massive buff to concord before that.
And I’m telling you that your observation is wrong. We measured and experimented with that mechanic for years and what you wrote is simply wrong or, to give you the benefit of the doubt has simply changed since (although a long time ago if that is the case).
yet i am able to come to the same conclusion as you in regards to its implementation (from an every day interaction perspective)
it still remains, however, that complaining about a mechanic that is working as intended by CCP (what ever your understanding of that is) and calling for it to be changed to some other form because you consider it an Exploit is not indicative of a good and balanced design philosophy. the current system can work both for and against every HS player in EVE
Me too. Though I started doing this long after this event (as I am relatively new player). Anyway, my main character has 286 exhumer kills along with 12 mining barges (lol). I did my share of miner ganking. So that is about me. I will not tell you who is my main so you just have to trust me or not I really don’t care.
That the concord mechanics works we all know. We (ab)use(d) them hundreds of time. But it is not fun to do that, it is annoying and makes no logical sense. We do it simply from a neccessity. Again, I am sorry if there are gankers who doesn’t feel that way, but I really cannot imagine anyone who likes to do this.
Just despawn concord after a minute or two and make them responds just as if they were pre-spawned in the system from start. Seriously I had a break from the game and now I want to enjoy the game, I don’t want to waste time and effort with stupid mechanics or manual killmail posting (I was snuddgy af in past).
Seriously why are you against this? The changes I propose are basically a QoL for gankers and a nerf or rather removal of the anti-gank strategy of using throwaway alt(s) to pre-spawn concord on the belt they mine (or elsewhere where you spend lot of time and could get ganked). (Which then either screws you over if you don’t see the concord on the grid and you pre-set your overview to something that doesn’t show them, or you do see it, cancel the gank, dock, undock with rookie ships and pull them away again - and that is really trololol).
that comment was in reference to this line in the original post
in relation to this. if you have ganked a miner in a belt and concord despawns 2 minuets later, you are then open to run the next gank with no additional prep beyond having a second set of catalyst alts ready to roll.
the current mechanic means that you need to take the time to prepare the field you wish to engage on.
this, although easy to do with the currently GCCs alts, is a vital part of the operation.
if the miner spawns the concord for protection and you fail to notice this with your scout, the fault is on you for not knowing your intended battle ground.
im all for QOL fixes but IMHO this is an un-needed fix that if implemented would only have a negative Net impact.
we dont need to make ganking easier for the gankers (CoughCODE**). in the same vain i dont want to make it harder either. EVE is about the calculated risk you take and the calculated risks your enemy takes. who ever prepares better deserves to come out the victor.
This stems my suggestion, those that are “Suspect” or “Criminal” lose their tethering to a structure unless they are in the corporation that owns that structure. Yet, they would still be protected from being shot at by NPC’s at any structure.
Give us, those players that want to destroy Gankers a chance to do so.