(Hakiri Saisima) #1

so what happened to pantheon carriers

can we have them back plz

(Lukka) #2

I have no recollection of this at all.

(Bjorn Tyrson) #3

Spider tanking turned up to carrier sized.

afaik its never used anymore, why bother doing a hybrid fit on 30+ carriers, when you can do pure dps fit on 25 of them and bring 5 faxes for more total dps and more total reps.

(Lukka) #4

Oh yes now I remember!

I think CCP purposely put an end to then because they were virtually invincible to anything that couldn’t alpha them from the field. Capital remote reps were nerfed heavily to discourage ‘out of siege’ use, conveniently killing the pantheon carrier.

The FAX is no better than the old triage carrier and suffers from the same problem of ‘logistics isolation’ when in siege, but fleets are willing to sacrifice them to save the herd.

(Cade Windstalker) #5

Why would CCP bring those back? They very specifically killed them and then, when they did the capitals rework, they emptied like an entire clip into the corpse with how they rebalanced capital RR.

Good riddance to bad gameplay IMO.

(Mayhaw Morgan) #6

Too stronk.

(Hakiri Saisima) #7

its not used because its not possible to do it effectively because of the out of triage nerf
you get the same rep power from large reps but better cycle time

(Hakiri Saisima) #8

thats why the pantheon was invented to prevent this

(Hakiri Saisima) #9

IMO faxes are terrible for anything larger than a few caps because then they cant tank for ■■■■ (eg todays dreadbomb / superblob mentality)

they should make it still possible but not as baller and op, like yeah nerf cap reps out of seige but not to the point where using large reps would potentially be better

(Hakiri Saisima) #10

like take wormholes for instance, faxes are awesome in there because you cant fit a dreadbomb in there unless youve seeded a dreadbomb before hand, and supers dont fit so bye bye to that idea, you can still get subcap blobs big enough to kill them but not before theyve tanked quite well

(Lukka) #11

Indeed, but it’s very bad for gameplay. The only way to kill capital fleets is to knock out their logistics and if the logistics are invincible the fleets can not be taken down. Right now we really need capitals to continue dying.

I flew in many Pantheon Archons back in the day. It was a terrible mechanic.

(Cade Windstalker) #12

Okay, that’s your opinion.

Meanwhile standard doctrine for most of the major Super fielding groups is 1-2 FAXes dropped for every Super or Titan. Even if they die they can very effectively prevent the death of the thing they’re protecting and act as a buffer you have to burn through before other stuff is going to die.

There is no way to make Pantheon not OP, because either you have enough repping power per ship that it’s effective or you don’t and it’s not worth taking the reps instead of more utility/neuts/damage/ect. This is the fundamental problem with distributed RR in fleet fights and why Spider Tanked BSes were so hilarious for so long, except those have other counters and downsides which people eventually exploited while Pantheon Carriers kinda didn’t really, since it’s really hard to get enough DPS that you can’t kill a Carrier before another Carrier can lock it.