Saying something, and it being true, are two different things.
PvP is not content. What entertainment have you provided for me by blowing my ship up, forcing me to take a whole 10 minutes to buy another ship, slap modules in it, and go back to work? You’ve done nothing more than the mildly advanced npcs ships can do.
A learning experience, the ability to fight back and have fun, destruction that drives the economy you’re mining to take advantage of?
but npc’s are content though, right?
Learning what? That ganks exist? Not much of a lesson, truth be told. They’ve existed since MUDS, nothing special or new. Fight back? For what? The gank does not set me back meaningly in any way, outside of annoyance. Why would I waste more time? NPCs provide plenty of destruction to keep the foundries burning, again the ganker is doing nothing extra or above what the npc can do.
No, npc’s are npcs. Content is there to be done. missions, stories, exploration. That’s content. PC’s and NPC’s are just there. You have the same misguided idea of “content” as the clueless n00b developers who make boring, empty “pvp sandboxes” and “survival games” because they think players will do all the work for them.
That’s maybe one side of the picture. A very limited one. If you browse for example for Paladin losses on zkill, a whole new world will open up to you if you search for fleet losses and to whom.
Try it!
You’re assuming everyone cares about zkill, otherwise known as the e-peenometer. I’m here for the purty ships and the relaxing monotony of mining and mission running.
Ideally a better fit for defense. Though that doesnt always translate to some ships like covetor which is just always going to be weak in that department.
for fun, maybe to kill some and hopefully not die?
I argue that players can provide a deeper content than npc’s. There are constant conflicts between players sometimes for trivial things sometimes for not-so-trivial. Besides just fighting, there is diplomacy and alliances, even if temporary.
I think everything is content, even if I dont choose to engage it myself. There is always some people out there that do enjoy the things I do not.
To me, players are the enriching factor for eve. Without players it would be kind of boring. At least to me.
@Remi_Lacroix I guess the problem lies in the power balance. It can’t be right, even when used to fix a problem with the industrial production chain.
CCP should fix their game, not players. All other uses are simply wrong, and the common man suffers stupid nerfs because reasons he does not even understand. Mostly because he ignores the game is balanced for people consuming group content alone and creating ISK / POWER creep that needs to be addressed.
So, I feel entitled to my opinion that it can’t be good.
I would say it comes down to relative friction.
For any given content, if the average player would prefer to form a fleet with 20 other people rather than multibox 20 accounts, then the game is probably in a healthy state. If it’s preferable to multibox, then probably not.
Something miners dont think about or realize, gankers are miners. Why attack other miners? To get the resources for themselves.
Some are other miners. Most are busybodies who think everyone that’s not them is a bot ( while they’re likely botting their ganks ).
The issue I see with this is that miners can defend themselves if they put aside maximizing for m3 per second. There is a reason procurers are oftentimes overlooked by gankers. Skiffs also.
The power balance that exists right now is due to miners not wanting to defend themselves, not that they arent able to. They want the most ore per cycle as they can afford. That is an imbalance in their own playstyle.
Everyone except maybe the occasional brand new player knows that gankers exist, and there are numerous ways to avoid being ganked. Sun Tsu wrote a book a long time ago that apparently just doesnt get read by people that probably should read it.
“Be where your enemy is not”
Besides that, i will again point to the procurer and skiff. You can easily get 100k ehp without overheating anything.
I guess that’s another issue that needs to be addressed. This game is working as ccp intends. If it were not, ccp would change it. It’s players that want it to be a different game. I will never understand that.
If you want something similar to eve but not eve, maybe band together and build it. There are a lot of intelligent people playing eve online. There is a lot of money being spent on eve online ever year. Surely if enough players really wanted to put in the effort, they could band together and build a new video game.
Of course, the less investment option would be that players simply band together in game and work together, protect each other. There are more people in highsec than any other part of new eden space. If players worked together, players could change everything about highsec that isnt npc related.
But they wont, because it’s just easier to complain and try to get ccp to change things for them than it is to put effort in and change things themselves.
What?
But it’s not really. It’s meant for people to work together. Players choose to not work together and instead make their own alt armies. This game isnt new, it comes with a history. Most long-time players understand that deception and counter intelligence is employed in most of the game and some people just get tired of it and instead want to just play by themselves.
That is the crux of the issue here. It’s not that alts are breaking anything, it’s that players have made an ecosystem where dishonesty is celebrated and rewarded. Where integrity is a joke worthy of mockery. Where being honest will get you taken advantage of by nearly everyone.
Predatory mindsets are the norm with any large enough group and even many small groups. You can’t force players that are tired of that to keep engaging with it by simply saying alts are the problem.
After seeing all the vitriol whenever the topic of Hi sec ganking is debated in these forums. I do wish that CCP would just do away with hi sec.
I remember the days after Scarcity and I am willing to bet what would happen here is they did away with hi sec.
I like playing Eve online. I have enjoyed Hi Sec, Low Sec, and Null Sec. But what I like most is that the game still is alive and “thriving” More alts that I would like, but still the game has 30K of players on most times.
But(and since my head is not on the platter) i would like to see what would happen if the people who are Pro Ganker would actually get their way. How soon, if they ever would, change their minds and ask for the way it was.
I mean hell, there are still people still wishing that CCP would re instate the removal of Local from Null sec.
Sometimes you need to give these people a can of Gasoline and a Lighter and watch them set their world on fire.
They remove Hi-Sec and I’ll roast marshmallows on the games burning corpse.
log into eve.
Ganking happens each and every day. You can see that pro ganking people are getting what they want every day.
EVE Online still exists.
I fully support ganking.
That middle name you have fits you well.
lol
and what is my middle name?
It’s never really bothered me even if the corp leaders did know I was up to anything furtive. I very much do my own thing, and have a finger in various pies. All that matters is, can I be trusted not to do anything against the corp…and I like to think I have a reputation for being loyal. But beyond that, I do as I please.
So just an update to the above as i see more evidence of alts dividing and destroying the community that our devs rely on to keep money in their pockets.
One group that i am a part of has introduced a “No Chatter” channel to their communication medium.
This channel is specifically designed to provide a way for any individual in fleet to hear only important information provided by the FC, while cutting out the general chatter of the rest of the fleet.
To put this another way.
The group has provided a way for regular fleet members to still take part in fleets in a way that they have even less interaction with the people they are flying with.
These individuals are not anything special, not performing difficult roles, not privy to sensitive information, they are just generally not interested in communicating with other real people, only joining fleets because they can’t do it all themselves.
If this doesn’t convince you that people are wanting to become more insular and less communal, then… you’ve buried your fingers in your ears and are humming loudly.
Humans don’t like working with other people, it takes trust, it takes mental effort, you have to anticipate the actions of other human being who may not have the same interests as you
In this day and age people are given an easy out by the proxies for human interaction we have invented; Youtube, twitch, X, instagram, facebook, etc.
Another addition to the above list is now the “No-Chatter” channel one group has introduced, you can now profit from being a part of the fleet, without actually communicating with anyone in the fleet.
These proxies allow people to get a vague sense of interaction, without having to put any mental energy into it; they are seeking the easiest route in life without developing and practicing any of the social skills needed to deal with other people or the world as a whole.
Given the opportunity, the vast majority of these people would be happy to shut themselves in a dark room, and not talk or work with anyone, because they have let their social skills atrophy.
This game’s devs should be focusing less on how to make eve a prettier game, and more on how to encourage more healthy community development among it’s playerbase.
This was the main attractor to eve in it’s first few years; bringing in hundreds of genuinely new people each month, the fact you needed to build a community to accomplish anything grand, and the sense of accomplishment when it all worked out, or the stubbornness to not give up if it doesn’t.
Communities are the root of this game and the devs income.
It’s the communities that engage new players.
It’s the communities that drive content for the playerbase every day.
It’s the communities that keep the vets around when they are tired of the same old gameplay after so many years.
Wake up Fenris Creations, Wake up Hilmar.
Your communities are finding more and more ways to allow people to not engage with each other. not build bigger, better, healthier communities.
They are literally pulling themselves apart at the seams with every action like the above.
I’d join the “no chatter” channel in a heartbeat. So much mindless drivel in coms…
so rather than contribute and try and direct the chatter to topics you find interesting, you’d rather not be a part of the community and exist in your own little world and watch im assuming youtube or twitch videos?
I think you’ve just supported my point perfectly, thank you.