CCP change how margin trade works. Why is marginal trading scams allowed?

this overlooks the legitimate use of the skill , buy orders which will be filled gradually , and the issuer’s wallet will keep up through sell orders being filled at the same time .

i saw that the scam requires to buy an overpriced , rare item , to fill -one- buy order . a buy order that could be filled or cancelled and i get stuck with the item .
then i applied the ‘too good to be true’ rule .
then i asked myself ‘am i smarter than the other 2000 people in jita local who seem to have overlooked this great deal ?’
in the OP’s case he answered yes and now has a wonderful memento to remind himself NO YOU’RE NOT . :slight_smile:

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It really can’t. The key element of the scam is not the offer to pay a lot for an item, if it was just a person saying “I’ll give you 1 billion ISK for this” in local chat hardly anyone would ever fall for the scam. The thing that makes the scam work is the fact that the order is presented on the market interface and players expect the market interface to be accurate (as it is in every other case), which means they’re willing to take the risk of buying that expensive item to fill the order. And that’s where it crosses the line from exploiting trust in another player to exploiting interface issues and broken game mechanics.

It overlooks nothing. If your wallet is keeping up with the orders that are actually getting filled then all of them stay on the market. If you no longer have the ISK to fill an order it gets flagged, but once you put more ISK in that character’s wallet and can cover the sale the flag is removed and it goes back to being a normal market order. All legitimate uses continue to be valid, the only thing that is removed is the ability to break the expected market behavior and exploit it for a scam.

Wait so if I put up an item for sale at x

And a buy order in a different system for x+10m and cancel my buy order when I see it sold

Is this a scam?

It’s a scam, but it’s a legitimate one because it isn’t relying on broken interface behavior. Also it requires you to be constantly monitoring your orders so you can cancel it in time, and forces you to pay that x+10m if someone is faster than you or gets the item elsewhere without you realizing it. Take away the ability to auto-fail the order and this scam likely disappears.

Theres already enough to learn about this game without the addition of fraud.

That’s a scam. What I’m describing is a fraud.

Why cancel your order when you can just bankrupt your alt?

Eh as far as I was aware a scam was a form of fraudulent activity, but I aint no big city lawyer.

We are having to make a distinction because some players think scams are a good part of the game.

By defining a distinction we show that this particular fraud is different. It doesnt allow a player to discover it except fraudulently…how can anyone know any buy order is real?

You can make *FAKE BUY ORDERS * to raise the price of any commodity you’re selling

I dont really get the mechanism, but I rarely sell to buy orders on things that matter.

You put 25% of the total value of the buy order into escrow.

If you dont have the money no one can sell to you.

But your buy order looks real

Technically yeah. But its just looking at the data and reacting accordingly. Like an actual market.

Hmmm they way you describe it, this happens on Ebay constantly.

No it doesn’t.

If someone comes into your store to buy something then finds they have no cash to buy, that’s not this. Not at all.

This is specifically saying you have bought something and heres the money.

Margin trades exist because a broker trusts their margin trader enough and has legal power over them to compel them to pay if they fail to do so.

Yeah like I say, I have no idea how that works.
I thought you were saying it artificially inflates the market value.

If someone posted the top 5% quantity of a product at a high price. Then bankrupts that character.

No one could ever sell to that priced Buy Order and the market will SAY the product is worth that much.

In-game value is the spread between top 5% buy orders and bottom 5% sell orders.

Giving any trader a rough estimate where the price should be.

Ok Im totally missing something.
So does the item change hands or is the order unfillable?

Its unfillable.

The fraud is when someone does it on a rare item so you cant tell the item isnt legitimately bought and sold.

But it can be abused even better.

Oh ok.

Yeah then I did understand it right.

Ok, no opinion on it then, doesnt affect me.

Look I know people think the margin trade scam isnt a big deal.

But here is a big deal.

I can place huge buy orders skewing the sell price raising it to the highest possible.

And no one can EVER sell to me, safely raising the moving average and making it look like YOU HAVE to set your sell price higher.