speed vector
something seems wrong about this terminology.
Speed and direction. That’s a vector.
Only when the ship is at rest with speed 0 it has no direction.
In this picture you can see two vectors.
- The intended move command, which is the longer blue line to the top, representing the intended direction and length of the path where I set the move command (q) to.
- The vector of the current movement of the ship, as shown by the short blue arrow in front of the Epithal. This one’s direction is the current direction of your ship and the length represents the speed of your ship.
(Also seen in blue is tether on the left side, as well as other non-blue lines. These can be ignored.)
I meant velocity. They are spheres with a velocity (=speed vector).
No. In that screen, you see the ships’s last tick’s speed, as well as your own speed projected on that ship. this allows you when you are following a ship to make your ship match your target speed
I edited for a clearer picture showing the two different vectors.
The vector that is shown and you call “intended” is actually the displacement vector, that is the vector of difference of position between your and the point you want to approach. It has no interest besides being the integrate of your speed vector you need to have in order to reach that point.
It’s not “intended speed” but “intended displacement”
I don’t really care about how you wish to call it. If it’s ‘indended displacement’, sure.
What I wanted to point out is that these are two different vectors:
- Intended displacement vector
- Vector of your ship
And that people who are talking about the ‘direction’ of a ship should be aware of these vectors, and the difference between them.
Renly was talking about using vector 1 to define the ‘face’ of a ship, while I would say it would make much more sense to use vector 2, if you want to use a vector at all, as vector 2 cannot instantly be turned 180 degrees, while vector 1 can, as vector 2 relies on the agility and speed of your ship, while vector 1 only depends on the intention of the pilot and as such can easily be gamed if these vectors get any additional gameplay implications.
And what I told you, is that once you reach your target, or when you orbit a target, then there is no direction associated to the displacement vector.
This is just non existent in the engine, and is solely a visual artifact to help you understand your ship behavior.
So if we talk about the mechanisms of the game, this vector (1) does not exist, no more than the alignment. Your ship is a sphere, with a velocity. And that’s it WRT alignment.
Actually it can. If you are going towards me, and I go towards you, and I’m heavier than you, and we hit each other, your velocity will go backwards under a tick. With a “pop” noise.
It can’t because it does not exist. It just can’t be used at all.
Again, your ship is just a sphere with a velocity.
True.
But what I meant was, not without external bumping. A ship on itself needs time to turn.
And a direction. As shown in my previously linked picture.
And a direction.
If your ship only had a velocity, why does it take time to turn?
No.
If you go in a direction, and ask to go backward, then your ship speed will be 0 between two ticks, and your direction will be switched from one tick to another.
No, no direction besides the velocity. Velocity already implies direction, as being the speed vector (the derivative of position on time).
It does not take time to turn. Your ship has no alignment, so it does not turn. It only changes it velocity, as a sphere.
Your ship is a sphere, with a velocity. Period.
Do you only fly instawarp ships or something?
Ships most certainly have a direction. And except for the most agile ships, it most certainly takes time for ships with a nonzero velocity to turn.
You keep repeating that ships are spheres as if it explains away what is being said. It doesn’t.
It seems to me the sphere has directionality, otherwise there would be no way to calculate a turning arc or its velocity. And if it has directionality then it has a back point and a front point that remain stable.
A ship in motion can indeed have a well-defined ‘front’ based on it’s current direction. But I’m not sure what you would like to accomplish with that.
already answered to that :
They can’t turn, because they have no direction besides the velocity.
A sphere with velocity can’t turn. It only changes its velocity.
Yes it does.
No. It has a velocity, period. That’s literally what “being a sphere” implies : it has no back and no front. Its only direction is the one of its velocity.
Any other direction than its velocity’s is wrong.
It’s the opposite of reality : in the reality, items have a velocity, an alignment, a position. They precisely don’t have an alignment in Eve, therefore we call them “spheres with velocity”.
If the ship has a velocity, and as you say, direction is a part of velocity, does that mean a ship has a direction?
Yes, it does.
Ships in EVE have a direction.
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A car with velocity cannot turn either, it just changes velocity when it takes a corner.
Sure Anderson, Sure. Please continue.
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You repeat yourself.
I already answered that : they have no direction besides their velocity’s.
You can repeat the same question, it will still produce the same answers.
A car is not a sphere. You are being an idiot under the pretext of irony.
Ships don’t have an alignment. They only have velocity. A car has an alignement, like most things in the world (cf angular momentum)
Which means they do have a direction, like you said. Glad we made that clear: ships in EVE have direction.
Now what if we use that direction to define a front and back of the ship? And I don’t care that the ship is actually a sphere, let’s define the ‘front’ based on the direction of the sphere and use this front for gameplay purposes.
Is that possible?
While it is hard to define a front on a sphere, we can define a front on a sphere with a direction - I could split the ship-sphere in two halves, cut perpendicular to the direction the ship is going, then define the half in the direction the ship is going as the ‘front’ sphere and the other half as the ‘back’ of the sphere.
So yes, we can define a front for the ships based on their direction, even if the ships are spheres.
Now that we cleared this up, let’s continue the discussion based on the facts that:
- the ships in EVE have a direction as a result of their velocity
- we can define a ‘front’ on the ship based on this direction
Implies yes.
Is absolute…not.
The way ships move prove that the ship’s internal locomotion is based on two fixed points on the sphere, one always behind the other. The actual movement as affected by outside objects can vary, but the sphere itself, assuming the pilot has given a command to move, is always trying to align the points along the selected trajectory from when the pilot gave the command to move.
That sphere is not moving like a saucer shaped alien spacecraft from old movies, which is what we would have if the sphere had no fixed points on it.
Just because it has no NATURAL back or front does NOT mean one cannot be assigned to it. They can, and obviously have been.
No it does not.
They don’t have a direction besides their velocity’s. PERIOD. They don’t have their own direction.
No, because a sphere cut has a direction (the perpendicular to the plane of the cut). All you are saying is, that when adding a direction, you can add a direction.
They don’t. If something has a direction, it can go backward. Ships can’t.
You can name “front” anything. For example, you can name “front” the part of the sphere with the highest z part . This is still a nonsense.
assign != imagine.
You can imagine a direction. Does not mean they are assigned one.
YES. FFS.
IT ACTUALLY IS.
How can you be so ■■■■■■■ slow not to be able to understand IT EXACTLY IS.
SHIPS ARE JUST A SPHERE WITH A VELOCITY.
The third one.
Ships have a velocity. Period.
example : you have a wife. Your wife has a brain. Therefore you have a brain ? Nope. You have your wife’s brain.
Another example : you have a sister. She has a brother. Therefore you have a brother ? Nope.
"have a " is not transitive.
Cars in real life have a direction.
Ships in Eve don’t have a direction. They are spheres with a velocity.
If you want to use the image of the flying saucer, it’s just as good : ships in eve don’t have a direction. Just because your client represents them with a direction, does not mean they have one. It’s just like I draw an heart on your cheek, does not mean you get a new fresh heart on your cheek.