CCP Please Stop Destroying EVE

Nope. The vast majority of my PvP happens in lowsec/nullsec. The personal impact on me would be more risk, as my highsec activities are overwhelmingly PvE and market/industry PvP that would be targets for combat PvP aggression.

(Although I expect the impact would be fairly minor, as I know how to avoid PvP threats and don’t AFK obliviously through dangerous situations.)

slapping an arbitrary time restriction on attacking players that would protect your own alts.

That is utter nonsense. Not only do I not have any alts within the 30 day window (or any real use for characters with such little SP) I explicitly included a mechanic where characters that do alt-only things lose their immunity. Veterans would gain very little from having PvP-immune alts that are restricted to newbie-level activities.

Arguably the most important core mechanic in EVE is a player-driven economy with PvE and combat PvP being core mechanisms for supply and demand respectively.

And, again, the player-driven economy is PvP. It is deliberately set up as competitive capitalism where success or failure is determined by how well you do compared to other players, and where being defeated by better players is a common and expected outcome. EVE’s PvE elements, where you are competing against NPCs and don’t have to interact with other players, are its least important parts and could be removed entirely with minimal disruption to the rest of the game.

Subscriptions are a struggle to win people over with in the first place, and that becomes even harder to justify when a new player can log in, start building up then get wiped out by the alt of a veteran on a free account in a catalyst.

And what’s the alternative? Change EVE into a completely different game, stop pursuing new customers who are excited about the idea of a game where a free account with a Catalyst can have a meaningful impact, and pander to PvE-only farmers who want zero-risk wealth accumulation until they get bored and move on to the next farming game? EVE has survived by keeping its identity as a PvP sandbox, not by trying to appeal to players who want a completely different game.

Yes, it is a joke that you think your definition of PvP as “the primary driving force” is something other people need to take into consideeration when they post.

If PvP is not the primary driving force behind the EVE economy then what is? Where does demand come from, if not destruction in combat PvP?

So then you don’t engage in PvP at all either? What is it you even do in the game? Meta items aren’t just “slight variations”, they allow you the ability to fit your ships in different ways without crippling them too much in certain areas.

You’re obsessively focusing on specific fits and ignoring the fact that I’m talking about general gameplay concepts. Having a module with -5 CPU is not an essential gameplay feature, it’s a minor detail of a particular implementation of EVE’s ship/module balancing. If ships were re-balanced around not having meta modules the game would continue on with minimal apparent changes. The exact fits would change a bit, just like they do with any balance changes, but they would continue to be used in pretty much the same ways.

And, as I said, meta modules could easily be implemented in the normal manufacturing process alongside T1 and T2. Now ships wouldn’t even have to be re-balanced at all.

That’s trading you’re thinking of. Mining is the getting of the stuff, trading is the selling of the stuff.

And you can’t separate the two because minerals themselves have no value or purpose until you either sell them on the market (PvP) or use them in the subsequent steps in the industry process (also PvP). A cargo hold full of raw minerals is an indeterminate state where success or failure depends on how you finish the activity.

Contrast that with combat PvE where, while some of the reward has to be cashed out, the game mechanics directly put ISK into your wallet as a reward.

I’m not, that is a fact, plain and simple.

Stop lying. You are lying about me supporting arena PvP, and now you are lying about the fact that you said this lie in the first place.

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Nobody is attacking people for suggesting that PvE should be improved. Post a thread suggesting that CCP overhaul the mission system to add more interesting NPC AI, or at least some new missions that people haven’t already solved and won a thousand times, and I guarantee you won’t see the same responses. What people are being attacked for is the incessant whining by people who are bad at EVE and demand easier AFK farming so they can “win” without ever having to improve their skills or effort.

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These two statements of yours are not equivilant. Wanting more safety in lowsec is not about improving PvE. It is about nerfing PvP.
That is why trying to talk about PvE in the manner you are is off topic. Because the thread is actually calling for PvP to be more limited.

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Nobody is demanding zero balance passes on combat mechanics. In fact, most of us have a variety of balance changes we’d like to see. What we are actually objecting to is “balance passes” that are nothing more than “make the game easier so I can AFK farm and get tons of space dollars”.

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No. Because safety is not an improvement to PvE. Safety is all about PvP. l mean the OP literally uses optional PvP as a hashtag when talking about lowsec. That makes it pretty clear it’s about nerfing PvP.

An improvement to PvE would be something along the lines of “hey let’s rotate the incursion faction once a month to keep it fresh.”, “hey, rogue drones should use all weapons because they scavenge, but with a trend towards their local faction including sleepers in whs and pirate factions special abilities”. None of which is being discussed here.

Me: “my highsec activities are the sort that are the target of combat PvP aggression.”

You: “THAT IS INCONVENIENT FOR MY ARGUMENT IT MUST BE RUBBISH!!!”

You mean like how a veteran player would be able to train up into a catalyst and line up a gank without even being able to be ganked themselves?

No, because the newbie’s safety is locked to green. It’s a complete exemption from PvP while they learn the game, not one-sided immunity where they can attack at will but not be attacked in return. If they want to begin participating in PvP then they have to go into their account settings, end their exemption early, and be treated as normal players from that point forward. There is no benefit to be gained here.

(And if you’re paranoid about veterans going through all the extra hassle of making and training new characters for single-use ganks then you can add a 15 minute timer for ending the PvP exemption, no getting into position and then opting into PvP immediately before you pull the trigger.)

No, it doesn’t have to change into a “completely different game”,

But that’s what we’re talking about here: going from a PvP sandbox focused on long-term empire building and competitive capitalism to a PvE farming game where the target audience is PvE-only players who reject any possible challenge and only care about making their wallet numbers go up as fast as possible until they quit and move on to the next farming game.

This whole aversion to “wealth accumulation” is odd.

It’s not about wealth accumulation, it’s wealth accumulation without risk or challenge. Nobody has a problem with smart or daring players being rewarded for their skill and willingness to take risks. The issue is people who want to AFK farm and passively watch their wallet number go up, and feel entitled to that “play style” and the removal of any obstacles that could present a challenge to them.

It would be fairly trivial to add more safety to lower end-PvE and decrease safety for higher end PvE without breaking the game.

Sure, but who is asking for that? I see a lot of people wanting nerfs to suicide ganks of freighters, removing triglavian spawns so they can AFK mine, etc. Hell, the OP in this thread is demanding more safety for level 5 missions. It’s very obvious that these demands are coming from established farmers who want to protect high-end income sources, not genuine newbies or people who would be content with level 1-2 missions and T1 mining frigates being safer.

It comes from a variety of places, including from PvE.

Not really. PvE in EVE is utterly mindless. Maybe you lose a ship or two while you learn the mechanics, but once you read the how-to guides and figure out your farming setup the risk of loss drops to essentially zero outside of poorly-timed disconnects or PC crashes. One you’re established the only thing you’re buying is ammunition, most of which is easy to build yourself and upgrade in your faction’s LP store. There is no way that minimal level of demand would be enough to sustain EVE’s economy.

Before you were making the argument with the assumption that no balance passes would need to be made.

Stop lying. I made no such assumption. Obviously minor balance changes would have to be made, but tweaking the CPU/grid on a few ships is not a major change to EVE’s gameplay. It’s just a minor balance patch on par with countless previous balance patches. And a hypothetical version of EVE where meta modules never existed at all (and ships were designed and balanced appropriately) would look virtually identical to the current game.

Contrast this with a no-PvP version of EVE, where even if you make balance changes (such as powerful NPCs to fight) to have the game function it would be an entirely different game.

I’m not.

You are blatantly lying by claiming that I support arena PvP when I have consistently opposed that concept ever appearing in EVE.

Every time anyone talks about PvE or PvP you come screeching in screaming about how PvE is terrible and anyone that engages in it is “farmer trash”

Stop lying. There are countless PvE threads I do not post in at all because they are not about demands to make the game easier and buff AFK farming. And nowhere have I ever claimed that anyone who engages in PvE is “farmer trash”.

Yeah, I am going to overblow this big time. 11 years in this game, and Kusions fleet made me hit a brick wall totally, and that mr lovin fleet in amarr. There is no way In gameplay that I can make money enough to build better ships, and that’s all meaningless, they will be destroyed in seconds too. My transport in cloak warp, got blown instantly it landed in Amarr trade hub. No human can do that.

So I’m doing the drastic move, and not going to waste my money on plex or game time, and going to throw my virtual billions in to bit space - and delete all my characters. CCP will not get any data transfer fees or money from me ever again. It’s my most valuable currency - time - that is being wasted now here. In 1-2 days my account will be gone. They need to wake up or go bankcrupt eventually.

Nonsense. Plenty of people are succeeding at these things, you’re just bad at EVE. But feel free to ragequit instead of learning how to get better and overcome the obstacles in your path. Nothing of value is lost when people like you quit at the first sign of difficulty.

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If you think someone is botting, send all your evidence to the security team. If they were botting you’ll get any destroyed but not looted stuff back.
Otherwise, accept you got outplayed. consider using a more tanked ship next time. like a DST with overheated invulns turned on for landing on a trade hub. You can pay a few isk in station to repair them or go to a Freeport and repair on tether.

There are solutions to your problem.

In the mean time, don’t forget to send me your stuff if you still want to quit. I’ll put it to use.

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Really?

I admitted it MONTHS ago…

You are a little late to the party…

Always the same few arguments from the same few people all easy to uncover by their writing style…

Dudes some day you have to decide WHAT eve is…

A ‘PVP game’ which means all non pvp players can leave the game and the game would have maybe 5k players which would kill themselves in a constant and boring loop over and over again or a ‘sandbox game’ which would include pve and every carebear on the planet able to play it meaning you HAVE to create a safe haven for those people…

It can’t be both because they are mutally excluding themselves…

No carebars without safespots…

But it has been both, for 17 years now…

So why are players leaving en masse?

Because it’s a 17 year old game. When EVE first came out, there was nothing else like it. Now players have 10,000 other games to choose from. And, let’s face it, younger gamers these days are all about instant gratification, and that’s not how EVE works…

So your solution is to dry eve out but don’t DARE to change it into the direction of those succesful games?

Well if you call this a solution…

Your first sentence is 100% right. EVE is a PVP only game and always has been. There should be no PVE whatsoever as it is a major distraction to the proper gameplay style. The faster this is realized the more subs and recovery this game will have.

PVE and high sec is killing the game. Both need to go. Then watch where the subs go. Hint: way up.

EVE is one of, if not the, most successful longest running MMO’s ever. So no, you don’t change a good thing just because the newest generation of gamers are all about gimme now…

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And?

YOU as ccp have to bow to that or you will be wiped away as it happens right now before your eyes…

Only a favor to pvp is killing the game…people leave in masses…

So that’s why the numbers are currently going up right…

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