Ccp response needed. whats being done to lower plex prices

@CCP_Phantom You do realise that these first two statements are not necessarily connected, nor balanced? In fact, it’s something your former economist pointed out as something known as a derivate of system risk variables.

Precisely because supply and demand is not a natural state, but a behavioural derivative as well as a mechanically bound interaction. Fun tidbit, the latter is never safe from the former. Wasn’t one of the golden rules “never underestimate the apparent madness of eve players and their capacity for organisation”? That was inspired not just by a learning curve, but by real world science.

By the way, did you know that large organisations have already decided to bypass the mechanical boundaries for these interactions? Plex isn’t just a currency, but also an indicator of something which happens in the real world when standard currencies start losing their intangible and time related values. The whales switch to high value and/or high speed commodities. Not merely as market, but as mechanism, even garantee actor for other transactions.

There’s this thing called economies of scale and there’s this thing called behavioural pathology of economic interaction. Please do not try to spin off market mechanisms as naturally correcting, Alan Greenspan might want to have a word on that with you :stuck_out_tongue: (he wrote an entire book apologising for exactly that opinion and the global damages it causes) Also please do not try to pass it it off as an interaction within a closed environment. It’s anything but :stuck_out_tongue: CCP opted to not make it so.

Also, please never underestimate the nature or the weight of what is known as perception problems. Ever heard of the case of the too expensive fancy vacuum cleaner? There’s an opposite of that on the behavioural scale as well :stuck_out_tongue:

Aside of that, I would think that CCP was able to learn that perception problems carry a heavier weight than real problems. We could have a historic as well as a business discussion on this, but for the limits of this topic that would go too far down the sideroads.

Suffice to say that handling perception problems is tricky because humans in layered organisations tend to produce measures which underestimate depth of perspective as well as emotional energy among those suffering from or signalling the perception problems in question. Whether it’s a newsletter, word of mouth, a blog post, this is today’s butterfly (so that’s where it went after dying in EVE, anyway) which can only be guided ahead of the curve. Not managed after or during.

Now, be honest, CCP does not keep its hands out of it :slight_smile: Not only have there been interventions, you are also an integral part of it. Simply put: CCP does not stand outside of the mix, on the contrary. Both as actor, participant and influencer. And beneficiary. Even if there had never been any interventions nor were there ever going to be, CCP has its hands in it. By default it is first and last finger in and on it.

If I may, I am curious whether this was just a courtesy response to a thread on a rather prevalent topic, or whether your statements are actually in line with or based on CCP’s policies. The vision formulated a few years back I get. But this is not the same thing.

The first is naturally appreciated, although it would obviously be nice to see more of it. Yes, I am aware of the risks, but if we must have inward bound community interactions, more crossing the river adds health to the dynamic.

The second would be troublesome.

Because it would signal a presence of policies fundamentally incapable from the venture’s vision by means of game design objectives in reconciling the mechanical and fiscal perspectives with the underlying realities of not just those pesky little humans inside their little pressure cooker, but economic science specifically. And yes, also in relation to game theory and implications of both for game design.

I fully realise that the above will hit home in places, just like elsewhere it won’t. But also realise this: todays markets in New Eden aren’t just a game in their own right. They’ve become something subtly yet significantly different, for CCP and its customers.
While the feedback in this thread is indicative of limited and specific feedback perspectives, it is not indicative of how much further groups of customers have gone in terms of mapping things out than - if that second perspective were to be correct - CCP themselves have.

That is what is known as an innate system vulnerability without means to ward against effects. Root cause of an old trauma, chasing lessons learnt after the ripples. The oldies will remember with a hint or two.

It’s also something which some people like because it allows them to create a cycle of collapse and shifting of costs without those who guard and those who depend on the system able to protect themselves from. I was in Iceland when such people made such decisions, I recognise not just the mindset, but the effects of the same decisions in New Eden.

Now here’s the question that truly matters: who pays the piper in such a cycle? The ones who are systemic beneficiaries, wards as well as connected users. Now depending on whether CCP still remembers the warnings of its own former economists and depending on whether some CCPians can still remember, that isn’t merely customers. It includes CCP to an interesting degree which will require smart yet vulnerable bookkeeping. And we all know how interesting these two years are.

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@CCP_Phantom

You say PLEX price is the result of supply and demand, but it is evident that the current high plex prices are the result of structural changes in the game, i.e. skill point farms and carrier ratting efficiency.

What do you think of the way these structural changes impact PLEX prices?

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Let’s be fair, on a longer term sub, it’s cheaper than that.

In all seriousness though, plex will cap out at the point that people are no longer willing to pay X amount for skill injectors. As long as people are paying the ever increasing injector cost, then plex will continue to rise due to each SP farm character consuming 4 extractors worth of plex + 500 plex per month. If injectors rise high enough that people aren’t willing to buy them, their price will stop increasing, which will result in a lot of SP farms considering shutting down till profits come back, meaning demand for plex tapers off, creating a soft cap. This is all theoretical, but there is definitely a point where people aren’t going to shell out for 10 injectors to get a character into a carrier.

Well, my personal take is that plex price is too low.

It’s been too slow for so long that too many think plexing as their primary mean to continue omega status.

Additionally, I do not see 1.5B ISK worth 20 USD. 5B maybe. So, plex price will continue to soar.

Until demand for skill injectors decrease. At that point skill injectors will fall, bringing plex price down with it.
“Why would demand for skill injectors decrease” though, is the trillion isk question.

As long as injectors track PLEX probably never. If they ever diverge significantly enough then whenever injectors get too expensive.

I reckon skill injectors are for newer players who are willing to spend (real) cash.

For me, I have no need for injectors. Now, extractors on the other hand… Some of my characters are retired with nice sp (50m)ish. Selling their SP does sound sweet.

I will decipher this for you all. CCP just dont want to intervene on PLEX market in case of high prices.

CCP is messing constantly with player market. Devs make buffs, nerfs, changes and removals constantly. If CCP would truly want to keep their hands off, they would stop introducing anything new to the game and stop selling PLEX. Will never happen. Thats not what CCP wants. :guardparrot:

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When earning enough isk in game per month to pay for 500 plex is achievable I feel content and happy with the value of the game.

However, when the price of plex becomes so high that it would require me to spend 10+ hours grinding PVE content to earn enough isk to plex my account each month, I simply stop trying to earn enough isk and stop valuing the game.

High plex prices cause a reduction in player activity is space. When players don’t have the goal of plexing their account though in game means in sight, it causes a lot of players to get bored, go Inactive and quit.

CCP need to consider this and start making plex drop from sites to bring the price down to a reasonable level so that dedicated users can play for free if they are willing to be active and risk their assets in game.

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If you’re playing to pay then you’re on a hiding to nothing; Eve is meant to be a form of entertainment, not a second job.

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In that line of thought everything messes with the market.
Somehow, someway, the taste of bananas in Monaco is affecting the market right now.

No, far too broad of a scope. While the Devs admittedly have the tools to interfere directly in the market - They generally don’t use them. Making, removing, or changing items doesn’t directly affect the market with the possible exception of adding or taking away NPC sales (BPO’s, etc.). Players still decide what to demand and to what to supply.

–GadgetCorp affects ALL the Banana Markets

The rapid rise in price can be blamed on players -partially-. Demands for plex always grow. Newbie teaching corps brainwash new players to plex their accounts.

Supply is questionable since people have to pay 20 USD for 500 plex.

In other words, too many people have taken plexing their account for granted.

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yeah strange thing for phantom to say
ccp already had a strong effect on plex market with recent changes
in the past they even dropped a lot of plex on the market from banned accounts

Of course, its not direct. I never said something like that. Messing up have a broad meaning tho. “Hands out of” too. :wink:

In the past, they have intervened on PLEX market when they have seen how someone wants to manipulate the prices. The speculator didnt get far that time. But it was few years ago, they probably stopped doing that when CCP Dr.EyjoG left them.

The problem is that there are two uses for PLEX - omega status and converting real money into isk.

Many people do not want/need to convert real money for isk because their in-game activities already earns them enough isk to buy the things they need. If it makes more sense to convert plex to isk instead of earning isk in game, what is the point in playing the game for these people?

Almost no one’s consuming the entire Plex market is speculation.

Lack of time or motivation to engage in isk profitable activities. Some people find mining and the various PVE activities insanely boring. Others have busy personal lives yet like the game enough that their limited time here is worth paying a premium for.

I said for people who like earning isk in game…

I understand what you are saying and i agree that converting money to plex is good for people who don’t like or don’t have time to do PVE but I’m not suggesting we remove the ability to convert money to plex. I’m suggesting that CCP need to balance it for the type of player i describe and the type you describe.

That’s too weak though.

Every subscription (home phone, cable TV, internet) has such issues.

I just think too many people have taken plexing for granted and now that some of them cannot afford it or taking longer, they are crying.

It is more of an entitlement issue.

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it seems that the most important information would be knowing how many honestly can’t afford, and how many are just self entitled. often enough it’s the form of fhe complaint, and the way the it’s expressed, that gives it away; that doesn’t help much for gaining a bigger picture, though.