CCP's botting excuse for the market changes is false

CCP has based their crippling market changes on an “assumption” that frequent and .01 increment order changes are being automated… This is simply not true and they have no evidence to support it… The truth is that alot of players are spending all their time keeping their market orders on top… The false claims that market orders are being botted are coming from players who simply don’t want to spend all of their time trying to compete with it…


If you can quote anything from CCP saying this change is based on a desire to eliminate market botting, please provide a link.


Thank you! That should get the conversation off to a lively start. Always good to have some facts in the discussion.

Personally I find the wording of their notice rather ambiguous. They mention a healthy market. They mention they are committed to fighting ‘automation’. They leave any link between the two as an implication rather than a statement.

To me this looks more like “Chaos Era” experimentation, where they are making easy changes to database numbers and existing features rather than coming up with actual new improvements to the game.

They’ll run it for a couple months, and if it doesn’t turn out to be a disaster, they’ll declare victory on a substantial pool of market bots (whether true or not). If it’s a disaster, they’ll change it to something else and declare it was an interesting experiment that revealed a lot of useful data and they’ll make good use of that data in the future.

I personally don’t have a good feel for whether this will work out good or bad yet - I don’t trade much. I agree with other statements that there will be 2 months of fluctuation where people are figuring the new process out, and then all increases in market costs will just get passed on to the purchaser.

Might get messy, but I think they’ll at least have a decent chance of coming up with enough info to make some improvements in the way the EVE markets work.


Alright, there have been multiple threads of players complaining about the changes. I feel them; I really do. They may not have outright killed a playstyle, but they definitely impacted the way it’s played (in a way that isn’t very well received). I don’t think it will lead to an economic collapse or anything, but harming the playstyle of a large group of players is definitely a big deal. As a result, I’d like to think that they put a a lot of time and effort into designing these changes. And, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume they didn’t.

So, I feel you dog, but try to make the best of a bad situation. Try to see if you can figure out how to make the new mechanics work for you. And, if push comes to shove, try another career. Hopefully, you can find something else you enjoy.


Saying there are no market bots is like saying there are no mining or ratting bots, when we all know that there are. CCP doesn’t teleport supers to high sec to be killed by players for not botting…


I can feel the same. They actually have killed my playstyle as I used to play the .01 game. Now I even think about stopping to seed 0.0 markets as I need to pay 1% even if nothing of my JF load might be sold at all


I’ve been playing the markets for almost two years now and have never encountered a single bot making market changes… They have all been players who are laying on their market orders and frequently going down through them… Unfortunately, I lost a lot of money making order changes over the past two days without realizing that these changes had gone into effect and the ridiculous amounts that were being taken in broker commissions with every change…


You understand that if you went two days without noticing the changes in your orders, that your claim “I’ve never seen a bot in two years” simply translates to “I don’t pay much attention to what I’m doing”?


CCP made the announcement for this market change over a month ago. It’s not our fault that your are one of those traders that never leaves the station or bother looking at the forum or EVE news and just sit there and click .01 ISK all day…


As far as bots go, yes, there are market bots, whether you want to admit it or not. All it takes is a quick Google search. Matter of fact I’m looking at the forum for one EVE botting program right now. There are 9,648 posts of which 5,158 are from Russian players…


Well, there is some truth to that… I was in the routine of quickly going down through my market orders and making changes…until I finally noticed what was happening last night…

Maybe so, but I have never encountered any of it… I think the real reason for this is to stop players from laying on their market orders all day long…which they allude to in their rationale… Seems like a lot of players are claiming their orders are up against bot changes, when in fact, the frequent changes are being made by players and not bots…

You know, this actually brings up a good point. A lot of people have assumed players were bots (for example, sometimes people would message me just to say they were just checking that I wasn’t a bot). Thus, it’s quite possible that the botting problem is perceived to be worse than it actually is. However, even if this were true, that doesn’t change the fact that a perception of widespread botting will send players into the arms of other games.

So, maybe botting wasn’t actually something bad enough that CCP had to make the changes. But, many players thought market bots were so prevalent, that CCP felt compelled to make the change. In other words, we might just have witnessed some security theater.

You’re right, there’s nothing that I can do about it and have to accept letting all my market orders just sit there forever while being undercut by new orders…and after my order times expire, I’ll be screwed anyway with the cost of relisting them… Loved the game, but this market change has totally fooked everything that I had going on in it… My desire to play is now gone with this one… Unfortunately, I think this is going to kill the game for a lot of people who are vested in the markets like I am… I’m not going to renew my Eve subscription after this…and just occasionally play with an alpha account…

have you considered selling out of an upwell structure, or dropping your own?

Which makes now a perfect time to hear from Team Security. You know, the strangely silent for 6 months or so group who would have to have been (hopefully) consulted and discussed with prior to any market rule changes…are those space crickets I’m hearing?:thinking::wink:

They have definitely killed my game. I had station trading alt to support my pvp activities. From the looks of it my income from station trading will drastically lower. I don’t like any of the pvp activities in the game to make isk. May as well stop playing…

so whats the real reason then? I’ve smelled a rotten fish in the barrell from the beginning.

1 Like

Lets say there is player A. A finds a market where he can sell his manufactured stuff. He invests, manufacture, put up the sell the orders.
Player B buying tons of stuff from Jita, then selling stuff, 0.1 lower price than player A. Player B has no clue what he selling, he just sell a lot of stuff, and kindergarden below his 0.1 prices, ruining player A’s business without any marketing skill or research on what to sell or not, and he not risking a penny anything at all. Player B is not a real trader just a 0.1 punk.
Now this will change. Player B has to research what to sell and where to make money, just like player A.
I like it.