Changes to Upwell "inactivity" not thought through

My understanding is that the new changes with the “inactivity” mechanic mean that any Upwell structure that is destroyed in an “inactive” state drops all loot and doesn’t have safety.

I understand why it was implemented (to fix another screw-up, the structure spam) but from where i stand it is just a new screw up on top of it.

The original mechanic with POSes that this mimics (no fuel) did only punish the owner (for the most part). This punishes everyone that uses the structures services, and there is zero transparency for third parties about risks.

For all i know, someone could setup a bait azbel, let people store stuff and then destroy it themselves. In many cases the cumulative value of stored goods in some structures vastly exceeds the value of the structure. Any usage of small structures should be a big NONO from this point on for anything remotely valuable.

It is not only that this sets ups a really bad incentive and risk profile for third parties. It is also completely intransparent whether your goods are safe at any given time.

Lets assume you need to run a long term job > 40 days with something valuable. At best you could use one of the huge Sotiyos, hoping that the owners don’t realize that the cumulative wealth vastly outstrips the value of their own structure.

I don’t claim to know a good fix towards structure spam, but if this is the implementation, this isn’t it.

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This topic has been extensively debated before and after the patch release on the official release threads and on other player-created threads here and on Reddit.

A particularly good recent thread debating this issue can be found here:

The first few replies are troll replies, but then the discussion gets serious and constructive. It suffices to say that it is unlikely there is more to be said that hasn’t already been said already.

You get a warning notification if your assets are in a structure that may be at risk. It’s entirely transparent.

Then those people are morons and nothing can help them.

If you cannot guarantee that, don’t use that structure. Are you relying on OTHER people to fuel structures just so YOU can take advantage of it? Sounds like that’s a risk YOU are taking by putting it in other people’s hands.

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I didn’t loose anything and the previous thread addresses the loss of the owner of the structure.

What i am talking about is the design decision that majorly changes how the game works. Let’s not pretend nothing changed.

Previously people set up structures to be used by third parties, to make a profit. Third parties could trust these structures implicitly. That is no longer the case.

In addition to this, it is not only about “forgetting to fuel your structure”. In fact now there is an incentive to NOT fuel your structure because you can steal the goods by aforementioned third parties.

In turn, given current price structures, having a small structure to run jobs is a NONO, because it basically assures that destroying your own structure with the loot in it is more profitable than running it.

This leaves the huge structures. But lets imagine one of the big highsec structures that gathers all market orders and jobs, if the owner decides to blow it up, he would probably make a tidy profit due to the concentration.

This change basically makes providing market and industry services to third parties void in the long run. What this does is revert the current model, where you have an open service market to the previous POS model, where you could only trust your own setup. I don’t think this has sunk in much yet. And i think its a horrible design decision, if it was to address the “structure clutter”.

Edit: also how long is the notification in advance? my understanding is that the structure can be destroyed immediately. What good does a warning do, if someone takes out the fuel at 2am and then kills it by 4 am.

All of this was discussed in that thread that you pretended to read but actually didn’t :roll_eyes:


No it does not, it is 400 posts+ discussing why he should have read the patch notes in time and some random gibberish.

It was discussed, but again you did not read it. I participated in that 400+ post thread, so I know what it is in it, thank you very much :+1:

I’d link you several over threads whose contents I’ve thoroughly aware of as I participated in them, but I don’t think you’d read them either :man_shrugging:


The other thread was a lot better. This freeloader is just pissed because he has more risk while mooching off of other people’s structures.


As soon as the structure goes vulnerable.

You’ll get it when you log in, and you have 7 days from then to figure out why you made the poor choice of leaving your assets in a structure that you don’t control.

All of this is just whining.

Stop leaving your stuff in structures that you don’t control.
There are hundreds of NPC stations in Empire space that are perfectly safe and unaffected by Upwell structure mechanics.

You’re just greedy because you want to take advantage of the bonuses, but are too much of a coward to face the risks they come with. And then going out of your way to make this pathetic concern trolling thread.


Not really. Everyone gets notice and a whole week to do the two clicks required to move their stuff to asset safety.

There’s no bait and switch here.

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This was never the case. The owner can let it run out of fuel, revoke docking rights or unanchor the structure any time they choose.

When CCP introduced the engineering complexes I decided that it made more sense to rent than build my own so I chose a large, well respected landlord. The 3rd time the structure ran out of fuel, I changed my mind and build my own.

There is legitimate concern that people on break from the game were taken by surprise but that doesn’t apply to current players. You know the risks, NPC stations are still available if you choose not to accept the risks.

Even the Tranquility Trade Tower, arguably the safest player owned structure in the game for the past couple of years, is in jeopardy as the members of the conglomerate that runs it are about to go to war with each other!


Fake news?

this is how the “war” will look


Changes to…Upwell…“inactivity”…not thought…through…

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He doesn’t even use, or probably know, the proper word. I believe that’s quite telling.